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 Post subject: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:10 am 
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I think Laundry Jones could pick that defense apart.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:07 am 
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The steelers defense? Yeah I think he could have.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:49 am 
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Yes, the Steelers defense.

I will also say that if the Steelers' offense had that effort in Foxboro the year prior, they would have beaten the Patriots. Ben was the only offensive player who showed up vs. NE. Yes, I realize there was no Bryant, Ju-Ju or McDonald.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:57 am 
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Why would anybody want to torture themselves and watch this debacle again?

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:25 pm 
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KC wrote:
Why would anybody want to torture themselves and watch this debacle again?


Good question. For me, it's kind of like the rubbernecker at the scene of an accident that's already happened that's curious about how it happened and why. Watching it again without the angst of what could happen because I already know helps me to break down the X's and O's and all that shit. But that's just me.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:15 pm 
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KC wrote:
Why would anybody want to torture themselves and watch this debacle again?


Into sadomasochism?
The psychology of sadists and masochists...explained.
Quote:
Some surveys have suggested that sadistic fantasies are just as prevalent in women as in men. However, it seems that men with sadistic urges tend to develop them at an earlier age. While some sadomasochistic people are purely sadistic and others purely masochistic, many are varying degrees of both, and may describe themselves as ‘switchable’. https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/hi ... omasochism


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:59 pm 
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That game probably features 2 or 3 of the greatest throws/plays of Ben's career.

Had the retirement talk been serious and that had been his last game, it would be have been one hell of a way to go out. Talk about going down guns blazing...

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:07 pm 
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Agree he did make some great throws in that game.

Here is the thing though. At his stage of his career and what this team hopes to achieve before he hangs them up it is more about the throws/plays he doesn’t make as much as the ones he does.

Fewer mistakes on his part could mean he doesn’t need to be Super Man just to make a blowout loss look respectable in the final box score.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:51 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Agree he did make some great throws in that game.

Here is the thing though. At his stage of his career and what this team hopes to achieve before he hangs them up it is more about the throws/plays he doesn’t make as much as the ones he does.

Fewer mistakes on his part could mean he doesn’t need to be Super Man just to make a blowout loss look respectable in the final box score.

He makes among the fewest mistakes of any QB in the NFL.

The keys to me?

1. A few situational play designs and calls to complement the off-the-charts playmaking ability
2. a plan/adjustments to get the QB/offense back on track when the original plan isn't working
3. building confidence and feel of the QB/offense by not only giving the pass game or run game opportunities in unfavorable game situations... like don't ask Ben to throw downfield until it's 3rd and 8, and don't run only in situations where defense is expecting run.
4. utilize depth and diversity of personnel
5. build around stuff that is points oriented and not possession oriented

Do most of that, and you can overwhelm any mistakes in early part of game with output.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 7:45 pm 
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When you said fewest mistakes of any QB in football were you just referring to the regular season?

Ben has 3 wins and 6 losses over his past 9 postseason games.

Ben has 13 TDs and 10 INTs over those games vs. opponents ratio of 14/3.

His TD numbers were greatly padded by the 5 TD performance in the Jville loss. If you toss that game out as well as toss out Bortles mistake free game the stats prior to 2017 look like:

Ben 8 TDs to 9 INTs vs. opponents ratio of 13/3.

Ben’s average QB rating over past 9 playoff games is 87.8 vs. opponents average QBR of 98.1.

Our boy Ben simply has not been playing mistake free football in the postseason. In fact, he’s done the opposite. Especially compared to his counterparts.

If not for the AJ McCarrons and Matt Moore’s of the world Ben might be winless in his past 9 postseason games.

He who makes the fewest mistakes tends to have the much greater probability of success in postseason play.

Tomlin’s poor decisions and inability to outfox his counterparts isn’t the only reason this team has become an easy out come playoff time.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:43 pm 
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INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything. Sometimes they are a horrendous play made by the QB, sometimes they are a guy willing to take risks to try and make something happen, sometimes receivers make huge or even subtle mistakes.

WTF has Ben been working with the past few seasons of playoff games, even going back to 2010?

Ben in his entire career has taken great care of the football. In fact, his biggest errors stand out because there are so few.

Aaron Rodgers doesn't even attempt some of the throws Ben has had to make to keep his team in games, because throughout his career he's had a decent OC-type mind as his head coach and the whole enterprise is built around his game. Rodgers has never had to protect his defense or run the ball a certain amount. And he's 5-6 since his line Super Bowl run.

What Ben's opponent has done, vs defenses that haven't been very good... this is of little import to me. You guys can make fun of me all you want-- Ben's last few years in the playoffs, essentially playing with an arm tied behind his back-- the albatross of Haley and his playcalling, missing Lev Bell in more than one game, missing AB in Den, playing a game and a quarter with a shoulder that should have kept him out of the game, balling out in NE with trash skill players, lighting up the NFL's best defense in the last loss. I'm not really sure what you're looking for out of him that he's not giving you. You deserve what you're going to get when he's gone.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:43 pm 
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Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

And Brees and Rodgers win less. With more on D.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:32 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
The steelers defense? Yeah I think he could have.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:34 am 
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KC wrote:
Why would anybody want to torture themselves and watch this debacle again?

I listened to the game on an airplane. No way I would watch that shit. Or any Steelers postseason loss.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:40 am 
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Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

I am not a mind reader, nor do I stay at Holiday Inns, but maybe he thinks he has to be agressive for this team to have any chance to win with our defense.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:18 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

And Brees and Rodgers win less. With more on D.


Obviously the Packers have not been racking up NFCCG appearances, but GBs defense has been sucking out loud for a while and Rodgers has not had any kind of running back. Meanwhile Ben has had Bell and AB.

I don't watch every Packers game, but I have seen Rodgers make some clutch, wild-ass throws. He extends plays like Ben, too.

My impression is Rodgers absolutely carries that team on his back and people bitch about McCarthy like many do about Tomlin.

So Rodgers may win less, but I think his offensive line and skill players and his RBs have not been in the same ballpark for years and if the Packers D is better, I bet it ain't by much.

I think there's some bad faith here on your part, B2B.

I'd wager Rodgers carries his team more than Ben does his.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... dx=players

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:03 am 
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Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:37 am 
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Who really plays defense anymore? Today's NFL looks more like Arena League football. The Nick79's of the world love it.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:15 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).


I know I'm supposed to set aside Rodgers, but your post possibly implies that Rodgers does not make a lot of ballsy throws. But he does. I think Rodgers and Ben are very similar players.

Their stats are very similar re yards per attempt, adjusted per attempt, NY/A, and ANY/A. Rodgers is throwing downfield just as much as Ben according to the stats.

Where they differ: Rodgers kills Ben in TDs per game (post season and regular) AND has WAY less interceptions while throwing downfield just as much (going by stats, any way.)

So Rodgers is possibly as bombs away as much as Ben, but with more TDs and less interceptions. I mean, are you trying to tell me Rodgers is some kind of gutless game manager?!?! I know you are not.

Might Rodgers be as much a risk taker as Ben, but is in fact more successful? I think that is the truth.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Quote:
INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything.


I bet if you looked at the stats without looking at the final scores you could do a decent job guessing who won just by looking at the QB data. And when the QB of one team has 10 INTs over a 9 game stretch while his counterparts have 3 its no shocker said team is a meager 3-6 over that stretch.

I think even you’d agree there is a correlation between INT numbers and wins/losses. So while not the “be all” I’m pretty certain even your boy Tomlin would point to turnovers as a reason for some losses.

In fact, if my criticism here was directed at Tomlin you’d likely use those turnovers as excuse for the loss. Nothing Tomlin could do there. It wasn’t on him.

I know not every INT is 100% on the QB. Duh.

But let’s not pretend those stats I posted aren’t damning because well, they are.

Shit man, prior to his 5 TD game against Jville he had more INTs than TDs.

That’s not a winning recipe in the postseason and you know it.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
Obviously wrote:
Even if he meant regular season, He's just blinded by his man crush. Ben makes far more mistakes than Brady, Brees or Rodgers. He's a top 5 QB, but he's not the best.

I am not a mind reader, nor do I stay at Holiday Inns, but maybe he thinks he has to be agressive for this team to have any chance to win with our defense.


Throw in he traded his balls for a vagina and maybe you have a point.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:23 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Quote:
INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything.


I bet if you looked at the stats without looking at the final scores you could do a decent job guessing who won just by looking at the QB data. And when the QB of one team has 10 INTs over a 9 game stretch while his counterparts have 3 its no shocker said team is a meager 3-6 over that stretch.

I think even you’d agree there is a correlation between INT numbers and wins/losses. So while not the “be all” I’m pretty certain even your boy Tomlin would point to turnovers as a reason for some losses.

In fact, if my criticism here was directed at Tomlin you’d likely use those turnovers as excuse for the loss. Nothing Tomlin could do there. It wasn’t on him.

I know not every INT is 100% on the QB. Duh.

But let’s not pretend those stats I posted aren’t damning because well, they are.

Shit man, prior to his 5 TD game against Jville he had more INTs than TDs.

That’s not a winning recipe in the postseason and you know it.


Ben played out of his mind in the playoff Jax loss. Those 4th down conversions were some of his best moments of his career.

However, I am not on the train that thinks Haley forced Ben to make a terrible decision and throw a shitty pic on our end of the field. I also do not think it was a spectacular pic by the LB. It was a patented Ben brain fart and it cost us big-time.

No way do I even come close to putting the loss primarily on Ben, however.

Also, Bradshaw may have thrown some pics, but he had, let's say, a "decent" defense iirc.

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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:27 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Set aside Rodgers for a moment and I will make my point:

Playing careful football in the postseason will rack you up a lot of losses, especially when paired with an average defense with a propensity for giving up back-breaking big plays on mental errors. Being careful and risk-averse is for teams with garbage at QB.

One would think, as Steelers fans, that you'd be more attuned to this–those of us who are old enough to recall the 70s certainly do.

Terry Bradshaw went 30TDs, 26 INTs, and an 83 passer rating... while going 14-5 in the postseason. He had 2 TDs and 3 INTs in a Super Bowl... where he threw for over 14 yards an attempt and was named MVP.

Hell, on defense, nobody cares about the plays you give up, as long as you can make a big enough stop in the right situation. (see most recent Super Bowl).


This is one of the two main steelers issue IMHO in a nutshell. A poor and sloppy D coupled with a conservative approach to big games. Tha approach actually makes the D issues more glaring and restricts that strength of the team. It's an odd choice.


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 Post subject: Re: Replay of Jags Playoff Game on NFL Network Now
PostPosted: Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:32 pm 
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Still Lit wrote:
955876 wrote:
Quote:
INTs and TDs are not the be all measurements of anything.


I bet if you looked at the stats without looking at the final scores you could do a decent job guessing who won just by looking at the QB data. And when the QB of one team has 10 INTs over a 9 game stretch while his counterparts have 3 its no shocker said team is a meager 3-6 over that stretch.

I think even you’d agree there is a correlation between INT numbers and wins/losses. So while not the “be all” I’m pretty certain even your boy Tomlin would point to turnovers as a reason for some losses.

In fact, if my criticism here was directed at Tomlin you’d likely use those turnovers as excuse for the loss. Nothing Tomlin could do there. It wasn’t on him.

I know not every INT is 100% on the QB. Duh.

But let’s not pretend those stats I posted aren’t damning because well, they are.

Shit man, prior to his 5 TD game against Jville he had more INTs than TDs.

That’s not a winning recipe in the postseason and you know it.


Ben played out of his mind in the playoff Jax loss. Those 4th down conversions were some of his best moments of his career.

However, I am not on the train that thinks Haley forced Ben to make a terrible decision and throw a shitty pic on our end of the field. I also do not think it was a spectacular pic by the LB. It was a patented Ben brain fart and it cost us big-time.

No way do I even come close to putting the loss primarily on Ben, however.

Also, Bradshaw may have thrown some pics, but he had, let's say, a "decent" defense iirc.


Not saying he didn’t make some amazing throws. But winning in the postseason has as much to do with your bad plays as it does the good ones.

Mistakes in the postseason are far more magnified. They just are.


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