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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 11:45 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Not surprising IMHO. Mitchell didn't earn his salary last season or for the season before so why keep him around. The other reason is dude has proven he's a bit immature for such an established veteran. Not the kind of leadership I want the younger guys being influenced by. Wilcox blew goat nuts. Not sure if he even wants to play football. Didn't look like it to me. Going to a new club I would've thought he'd be unstoppable trying to make his brand. He couldn't find the field very often and when he did he was undisciplined and callus. Perhaps he's still very raw I don't know. He is not worthy of the current salary he's expected to collect on the 2018 season. Perhaps release him and bring him back at a much more realistic 1 year prove it contract. With the new DB coach it only makes sense to jettison the poor example [Mitchell] and overpaid ne'er-do-well [Wilcox] giving coach Bradley a new slate with guys that are proven they're buying into the plan. That all said, that leaves this defense very little depth at safety. Davis, R. Golden and Dangerfield are those proven try hard guys. WTF Colbert? The future reserve guy isn't counted out either. Malik Golden. Talk about Bare bones. They almost have to sign a FA safety before the draft and draft a safety to go into the 2018 season.

I wonder if Allen is in the plans for the safety spot - he certainly has the size. I know they like him, but may really see him as a CB only, not sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:08 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
Not surprising IMHO. Mitchell didn't earn his salary last season or for the season before so why keep him around. The other reason is dude has proven he's a bit immature for such an established veteran. Not the kind of leadership I want the younger guys being influenced by. Wilcox blew goat nuts. Not sure if he even wants to play football. Didn't look like it to me. Going to a new club I would've thought he'd be unstoppable trying to make his brand. He couldn't find the field very often and when he did he was undisciplined and callus. Perhaps he's still very raw I don't know. He is not worthy of the current salary he's expected to collect on the 2018 season. Perhaps release him and bring him back at a much more realistic 1 year prove it contract. With the new DB coach it only makes sense to jettison the poor example [Mitchell] and overpaid ne'er-do-well [Wilcox] giving coach Bradley a new slate with guys that are proven they're buying into the plan. That all said, that leaves this defense very little depth at safety. Davis, R. Golden and Dangerfield are those proven try hard guys. WTF Colbert? The future reserve guy isn't counted out either. Malik Golden. Talk about Bare bones. They almost have to sign a FA safety before the draft and draft a safety to go into the 2018 season.

I wonder if Allen is in the plans for the safety spot - he certainly has the size. I know they like him, but may really see him as a CB only, not sure.

I think he'll be the replacement for Willie Gay in the dime. He fits that spot very well.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:21 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
This hasn't happened yet so fingers crossed. I was expecting both to happen and to happen pretty quickly before the March frenzy started.

When you factor in the cost of say a first or second round pick safety (either a $1 million cap hit, or a $750K cap hit) and the cost of a low draft pick/UDFA ($555K cap hit), that combined $8.125 million from cutting Mitchell and Wilcox comes out to the $6.5 million neighborhood in terms of true cap space created.

I know people will beat that tired old drum that they did this so that they can sign Bell or have the money needed to franchise Bell, but I think there are other considerations too.

Rosie Nix and Chris Boswell and maybe Chris Hubbard (?).

They just gave Rosie a 4 year contract. It was 4 years for $7 million (6.975 million to be precise). That makes him the 4th highest paid FB in the NFL. I think he is easily a Pro Bowl quality special teams player and has a chance to be a multi-dimensional FB who can block and also run and catch, be more involved in the offense.

Boswell, easily one of the best place kickers in the NFL right now. I think the Steelers reward him and he is given a nice new contact. How much? The top 4 contracts are for $16, 16, 17 and 22 million. I am thinking that they give Boz a 4 year $17-18 million contract.

Hubbard. Gilbert only has 2 years left on his deal and became injury prone again, and also was suspended for 4 games for performance enhancing drugs. AND was also grumbling about not being paid enough. Hmmm. As much as l love Gilbert when he is healthy and starting, that is a lot of uncertainty. The NFL is tough and the tackle position even more so, we have a great trio in Big Al, Gilbert and Hubbard. Maybe they keep Hubbard and phase out Gilbert after this year? Maybe Hubbard resigns if he thinks he can be the starter by 2019? I am thinking he might get 4 years $18-20 million.

That $6.5 million in cap space created by cutting Wilcox and Mitchell could be used to give Rosie Nix, Chris Boswell and Chris Hubbard new contracts.

Scunge, I've been thinking the same thing, especially regarding Hubbard. He's almost 4 years younger, more reliable, almost as good and position flexible in a pinch. The big question with this I guess is, what do they see in Hawkins (they spent a 4th on)? If he is projecting as a future starting RT in a year, then Hubs is gone. If true, can't keep 'em all, I guess. I also wonder if Gilbert being close friends with Joe Haden and big reason he signed with us will play a factor into all of this.

Boz will get paid soon enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:32 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
DP39 wrote:
Steelafan77 wrote:
Not surprising IMHO. Mitchell didn't earn his salary last season or for the season before so why keep him around. The other reason is dude has proven he's a bit immature for such an established veteran. Not the kind of leadership I want the younger guys being influenced by. Wilcox blew goat nuts. Not sure if he even wants to play football. Didn't look like it to me. Going to a new club I would've thought he'd be unstoppable trying to make his brand. He couldn't find the field very often and when he did he was undisciplined and callus. Perhaps he's still very raw I don't know. He is not worthy of the current salary he's expected to collect on the 2018 season. Perhaps release him and bring him back at a much more realistic 1 year prove it contract. With the new DB coach it only makes sense to jettison the poor example [Mitchell] and overpaid ne'er-do-well [Wilcox] giving coach Bradley a new slate with guys that are proven they're buying into the plan. That all said, that leaves this defense very little depth at safety. Davis, R. Golden and Dangerfield are those proven try hard guys. WTF Colbert? The future reserve guy isn't counted out either. Malik Golden. Talk about Bare bones. They almost have to sign a FA safety before the draft and draft a safety to go into the 2018 season.

I wonder if Allen is in the plans for the safety spot - he certainly has the size. I know they like him, but may really see him as a CB only, not sure.

I think he'll be the replacement for Willie Gay in the dime. He fits that spot very well.

Sounds about right, b2b2. So, with Haden, Burns, Hilton, Sutton and Allen they're about set at CB. I think they have real plans for Davis at FS. If so, who do you like as a realistic FA SS? If both MM and Wilcox are gone and Golden/Dangerfield as backups, you know Colbert will grab at least one in FA before the draft.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Bradley McDougald? Kind of thinking he'll re-sign with Seattle but he would kind of fit their profile.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
Unfortunately, many of us have already anticipated Mitchell being cut and then brought back at a reduced salary.

Second, none of this matters. Unless Colbert hits the lottery two or three times, Mike Tomlin is in complete command of that defense. That's all you need to know to see that Tomlin has been a free rider on the talent of some players and coaches. His fingerprints are all over an awful defense - that's what Mike Tomlin brings to the table.


Well, that and WR bubble screens...

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
Lynch wrote:
Wonder if Gay will take over?


Sweet Jesus I hope not


There was an article stating that maybe Cam Sutton would get a chance @ the FS spot. Apparently his football IQ is off the chain.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Stillcajun wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Lynch wrote:
Wonder if Gay will take over?


Sweet Jesus I hope not


There was an article stating that maybe Cam Sutton would get a chance @ the FS spot. Apparently his football IQ is off the chain.

We'd still need a SS in that scenario. Besides, Cam should be starting over Artie Burns.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Stillcajun wrote:
Gonzo wrote:
Lynch wrote:
Wonder if Gay will take over?


Sweet Jesus I hope not


There was an article stating that maybe Cam Sutton would get a chance @ the FS spot. Apparently his football IQ is off the chain.


Interesting.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:47 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Besides, Cam should be starting over Artie Burns.


I agree, but Cam to FS might not be the worst route to go. You've got Haden and Hilton, so if Burns pulls his head out of his ass you really only need a SS (assuming Allen can be your dime guy stepping in for Gay). That has the potential to be at least an above average secondary.

I think that gives us a shot (with a hypothetical different coaching staff) with an R1 and R2 starter out of the draft at either OLB, ILB and SS.

I realize the Burns situation really isn't comparable to Ike. But Ike had his growing pains and then the light went on. Maybe Burns had lingering effects from a bad concussion, and with the cobwebs finally clearing maybe he won't worry so much about CTE.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 3:51 pm 
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How many big plays does anyone recall MM making in the last two years?

A big hit to stop a drive? Forced fumble? Interception?

All I saw, and granted I’m jaded, was him missing tackles, overrunning plays and NEVER making a big play.

I’m too lazy, but how many interceptions does he have as a Steeler?

Cannot wait to see some more speed and athletic ability at the position.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:29 pm 
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I remember actually seeing him pick one off, but seems like that was a couple years ago, I'm sure he's snagged a few. Seems like I can only recall one ff as well. What stands out most to me were the numerous 15 yd'ers that fucker committed. His first year or so here was brutal... for us.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:38 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
How many big plays does anyone recall MM making in the last two years?

A big hit to stop a drive? Forced fumble? Interception?

All I saw, and granted I’m jaded, was him missing tackles, overrunning plays and NEVER making a big play.

I’m too lazy, but how many interceptions does he have as a Steeler?

Cannot wait to see some more speed and athletic ability at the position.

And I seriously doubt that you’ll see more interceptions. As much as guys like Mitchell should be upgraded, it still comes down to scheme, and what the Steelers ask and want their safeties to do. Tackle the catch didn’t leave town with Dick Lebeau...

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:47 pm 
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Talk also of moving Davis to FS


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:20 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
BarryFoster wrote:
How many big plays does anyone recall MM making in the last two years?

A big hit to stop a drive? Forced fumble? Interception?

All I saw, and granted I’m jaded, was him missing tackles, overrunning plays and NEVER making a big play.

I’m too lazy, but how many interceptions does he have as a Steeler?

Cannot wait to see some more speed and athletic ability at the position.

And I seriously doubt that you’ll see more interceptions. As much as guys like Mitchell should be upgraded, it still comes down to scheme, and what the Steelers ask and want their safeties to do. Tackle the catch didn’t leave town with Dick Lebeau...


I saw many opportunities for picks on deep moon balls over the years. But yeah, get your point.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:23 pm 
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steelmann58 wrote:
Talk also of moving Davis to FS


People got on Sean Davis for allowing Gronk to tool him in the Pats’ game.

Mitchell was more to blame for that than Davis...he was never there to help on time.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:10 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
How many big plays does anyone recall MM making in the last two years?

A big hit to stop a drive? Forced fumble? Interception?

All I saw, and granted I’m jaded, was him missing tackles, overrunning plays and NEVER making a big play.

I’m too lazy, but how many interceptions does he have as a Steeler?

Cannot wait to see some more speed and athletic ability at the position.

4 INT's since 2015.

There's a few articles out there to catch up on a reason or 2 why Davis may get moved to FS. http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/stee ... 1802150130
Range is seen as a better fit at FS and Mitchell likely being a cap casualty I think they really have few options. It still amazes me that it takes just about a complete break down of player/talent before the issue is even looked at to resolve. Nothing this coaching staff does indicates to me 'preventative maintenance' regarding talent. Perhaps the talent evaluators have become complacent? Perhaps there is someone over riding the logic that needs applied? A Shame that so much sleeping at the wheel is allowed in such a prestigious franchise with a storied history of the opposite. JMO


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:46 pm 
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So these guys should be March 1 cuts?

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:57 pm 
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Could anyone give me examples of Sean Davis playing the single high safety last season.

The Steelers could have big time problems on the horizon

Artie Burns Sean Davis...Both look like they suck

I believe Tom Bradley can really coach and teach...We shall see

Neither has been reported cut yet...I wont be shocked if they cut Wilcox and re-work Mitchell's deal with a year or two added to the deal

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:33 pm 
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I don't know FC. I do remember Sean Davis having memorable plays down the field, deep down the field, not as an in the box typical strong safety, but more as that centerfielder making plays on the ball.

His rookie season Willie Gay was trying to cover Shephard, this was against the Giants, and Davis was back there deep and Manning threw the ball. Davis was able to just slide over and snatch the ball easily for the INT.

I remember a similar play against Baltimore this year where Hilton was covering a player who was running straight down the middle of the field and it was Sean Davis who was deep. Flacco let it rip and Davis read the whole thing all the way, slipped up and in front of the players and made the INT and then returned it for 41 yards.

Of his 4 INTs, he only returned two of them but one was for 41 yards and the other for 35 yards. When you look at his career, he just seems like a different player when he is further away from the line of scrimmage. As a FS, playing Mitchell's spot, he will have his eyes forward facing the QB, able to read and decipher plays faster. And he has proven to me that he has the hands and talent to make INTs. Isn't that what we want our FS to do? To be back there and be the last line of defense, come up and make hard hits, get your hands on INTs? Anybody remember the one KC game where Davis came up and separated the ball from Conley as he was making the catch? Sure, he was flagged on the play, but when does Mike Mitchell ever force contested catches like that? Honestly I remember more times where Mitchell came up and delivered a big hit on his own teammate.

Just have always thought that Davis was miscast as our SS and would be better as the FS.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:44 pm 
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I don't know if Davis is A great FS, but I think he's much better suited to that than he is to SS.

Both Davis and Burns are young... Burns, especially. There's hope that they'll get better. Burns, especially, I think has been all about the mental errors.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 11:30 am 
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I'm hoping that Bradley can reach both youngsters. Instill a work ethic and maturity that pays dividends. Better disciplined, football savvy, wrap up tackling.


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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:18 pm 
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The simple fact is there is no such thing as a downgrade for Mike Mitchell - PIT might as well be playing 11 on 10.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:01 pm 
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The two things that have me really concerned with Artie Burns is that he plays soft against the run (tackling in general) and that he may be too stiff as a player. Those two things just don't go together. You can be a player who is not that fluid or agile and still be a great CB if you use your size and length and physicality to compensate for it.

When I try and watch him backpedal it is painful. It is like watching a RB run too upright through a tight hole, or watching an offensive linemen who refuses to bend his knees, who only bends from the waist. Burns is stiff, stiff, stiff.

But that is not a death sentence for a CB, if you have size, if you use your length and physicality to your advantage. He is a 6 footer, has arms over 33 inches long but he rarely uses those tools. Bradley really needs to work the hardest on Burns to try and turn his career around. I am hoping that Bradley and Joe Haden can get through to him and get him back on track.

In terms of Davis at FS and people worried about him being the last line of defense, I don't worry at all. He will be an upgrade over Mike Mitchell. Much easier to find a SS in this year's draft then a FS probably, moving Davis to FS allows you to tackle the first problem and who knows maybe Davis proves himself a solution to the FS problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Mitchell and Wilcox expected to be released
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:08 pm 
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Burns has his warts, but I think he had a fairly solid season and I'm excited about his future. *shrugs*

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