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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 4:58 pm 
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FC wrote:
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Why isn't it Colbert's team?


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I second this sentiment.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:05 pm 
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fortythree wrote:
redmanrumbles wrote:
fortythree wrote:
[

Here's the reason the "Cowher's team" bullshit is fucking dumb.

Kevin Colbert was the guy in charge the whole time. Why isn't it Colbert's team?


Call it whatever the fuck you want. The material point is that defense was built on INHERITED players. And Since Tomlin has come on board, it has been reported many places that he does contribute to draft analysis. So Tomlin has had a hand in the Jarvis Jones and Bud Duprees that we have "rebuilt' this defense around.

Did Cowher have input on drafting Troy or Aaron Smith? I have no idea nor do I care. It doesn't change the fact that Tomlin inherited such players. It also doesn't change the fact that such players and the defense were the primary reason this team went to a SB in 2008 and 2010.


So the GM makes the decisions but it's the coach's fault?


Kindly show me where I said that. My point is that the vast majority of players on those early defenses were inherited. If you think I'm trying to give credit to Bill Cowher I'm not... he is a red herring. The point is Mike Tomlin walked into that situation and as a team Colbert/Tomlin have shown no aptitude for fixing this defense in recent years. See Ziggy Hood, Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree etc etc

And no, I'm not saying Tomlin only deserves the blame when things don't work out. Do you believe Tomlin doesn't have a lot of input in who we draft defensively- I mean that is his "niche". So sure, he definitely deserves credit for the Lamar Woodley's and Cam Heywards... but all in all the drafting/development on defense has been BELOW THE LINE.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
And Belichick lost to Jake Plummer, recently retired Nick Foles, the ghost of Peyton Manning's arm, and Mark Freakin Buttfumble... so what's your point?


Each of those teams had defense built to beat the Patriots and didn’t have to rely on their QBs so much.

Well...the Eagles had to...but they were a good all-around team and Foles has been just fine when not weighed down by Jeff Fisher.

None of those was a Tim Tebow or Blake Bortles.

Every team but the Pats lost to either won or got to the Super Bowl in that timeframe you chose.

The Steelers? Only Denver and New England made it to the Super Bowl. Tebow’s Broncos...the Ravens...Jax...all lost their next game.


Quick comment on that Tebow game - the Steelers were absolutely decimated by injuries:

- Ben was playing on a high ankle sprain (he had missed the week 16 game vs. the Rams)
- Mendenhall blew out his knee in Week 17. Jon Dwyer was already on IR, which gave Isaac Redmond the start
- Pouncey re-injured his ankle in Week 17 and did not play
- Casey Hampton and Brett Keisel both went down with injuries early in the 1st half. Hoke and Aaron Smith were already on IR. D-Line depth was non-existent
- Ryan Clark didn't play (sickle cell)

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:21 pm 
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"redmanrumbles"]
fortythree wrote:
redmanrumbles wrote:
fortythree wrote:
[

Here's the reason the "Cowher's team" bullshit is fucking dumb.

Kevin Colbert was the guy in charge the whole time. Why isn't it Colbert's team?


Call it whatever the fuck you want. The material point is that defense was built on INHERITED players. And Since Tomlin has come on board, it has been reported many places that he does contribute to draft analysis. So Tomlin has had a hand in the Jarvis Jones and Bud Duprees that we have "rebuilt' this defense around.

Did Cowher have input on drafting Troy or Aaron Smith? I have no idea nor do I care. It doesn't change the fact that Tomlin inherited such players. It also doesn't change the fact that such players and the defense were the primary reason this team went to a SB in 2008 and 2010.


So the GM makes the decisions but it's the coach's fault?


Kindly show me where I said that. My point is that the vast majority of players on those early defenses were inherited. If you think I'm trying to give credit to Bill Cowher I'm not... he is a red herring. The point is Mike Tomlin walked into that situation and as a team Colbert/Tomlin have shown no aptitude for fixing this defense in recent years. See Ziggy Hood, Jarvis Jones, Bud Dupree etc etc

And no, I'm not saying Tomlin only deserves the blame when things don't work out. Do you believe Tomlin doesn't have a lot of input in who we draft defensively- I mean that is his "niche". So sure, he definitely deserves credit for the Lamar Woodley's and Cam Heywards... but all in all the drafting/development on defense has been BELOW THE LINE.[/quote]



The HC has as much say in the draft process as does the GM...at the very least its 50/50. so Colbert/Cowher >>>>>>> Colbert/Tomlin...either way who cares, fire them both but Tomlin DESERVES to have his ass shown the door. And he DID INHERIT and WIN WITH Colbert/Cowhers players.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:30 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
And Belichick lost to Jake Plummer, recently retired Nick Foles, the ghost of Peyton Manning's arm, and Mark Freakin Buttfumble... so what's your point?


Each of those teams had defense built to beat the Patriots and didn’t have to rely on their QBs so much.

Well...the Eagles had to...but they were a good all-around team and Foles has been just fine when not weighed down by Jeff Fisher.

None of those was a Tim Tebow or Blake Bortles.

Every team but the Pats lost to either won or got to the Super Bowl in that timeframe you chose.

The Steelers? Only Denver and New England made it to the Super Bowl. Tebow’s Broncos...the Ravens...Jax...all lost their next game.


Quick comment on that Tebow game - the Steelers were absolutely decimated by injuries:

- Ben was playing on a high ankle sprain (he had missed the week 16 game vs. the Rams)
- Mendenhall blew out his knee in Week 17. Jon Dwyer was already on IR, which gave Isaac Redmond the start
- Pouncey re-injured his ankle in Week 17 and did not play
- Casey Hampton and Brett Keisel both went down with injuries early in the 1st half. Hoke and Aaron Smith were already on IR. D-Line depth was non-existent
- Ryan Clark didn't play (sickle cell)


Story of that game was how Lebeau & Tomlin chose to play defense in OT more so than those injuries IMO.

Injuries are beyond your control. Your choice of plays isn’t.

Putting all 11 defenders within 5 yards of the LOS at the snap in modified OT where you get the ball as long as you don’t give up a TD was ummm, highly questionable.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:06 am
Posts: 9021
="955876"]
Pabst wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
And Belichick lost to Jake Plummer, recently retired Nick Foles, the ghost of Peyton Manning's arm, and Mark Freakin Buttfumble... so what's your point?


Each of those teams had defense built to beat the Patriots and didn’t have to rely on their QBs so much.

Well...the Eagles had to...but they were a good all-around team and Foles has been just fine when not weighed down by Jeff Fisher.

None of those was a Tim Tebow or Blake Bortles.

Every team but the Pats lost to either won or got to the Super Bowl in that timeframe you chose.

The Steelers? Only Denver and New England made it to the Super Bowl. Tebow’s Broncos...the Ravens...Jax...all lost their next game.


Quick comment on that Tebow game - the Steelers were absolutely decimated by injuries:

- Ben was playing on a high ankle sprain (he had missed the week 16 game vs. the Rams)
- Mendenhall blew out his knee in Week 17. Jon Dwyer was already on IR, which gave Isaac Redmond the start
- Pouncey re-injured his ankle in Week 17 and did not play
- Casey Hampton and Brett Keisel both went down with injuries early in the 1st half. Hoke and Aaron Smith were already on IR. D-Line depth was non-existent
- Ryan Clark didn't play (sickle cell)


Story of that game was how Lebeau & Tomlin chose to play defense in OT more so than those injuries IMO.

Injuries are beyond your control. Your choice of plays isn’t.

Putting all 11 defenders within 5 yards of the LOS at the snap in modified OT where you get the ball as long as you don’t give up a TD was ummm, highly questionable.[/quote]



Normally id agree with that but with Tomlin, his philosophy is to regularly run the wheels off his players, and in many if not most cases he has no viable plan B so i dont give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes toi njuries.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:18 pm 
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Oh I agree with you here too Greek.

Just pointing out that even with all those injuries in Tebow game we still had a chance to win it in OT

Until a bad decision by the coaches intervened.


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:20 pm 
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955876 wrote:
Oh I agree with you here too Greek.

Just pointing out that even with all those injuries in Tebow game we still had a chance to win it in OT

Until a bad decision by the coaches intervened.




agreed


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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 8:37 pm 
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The offensive play of that game that I remember is one of the last gasp attempts to get into position for the winning score.

It was a pass play to Hines Ward where Ward took about 25 minutes to get downfield.

How i knew Ward was starting to lose it.

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 Post subject: Re: Mark Madden on Steelers Clubhouse
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:15 pm 
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Trivia .... who are
The teflon don
The teflon president
The teflon coach


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