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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2018 11:04 pm 
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LeMarcus Joyner projected contract on spotrac:

Market Value
5 yrs, $53,247,260
Avg. Salary: $10,649,452
NFL Rank: 97
FS Rank: 3

a deal like that could have a cap hit as low as $3M this season.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:08 am 
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I think it's way more likely the Steelers acquire a couple of guys after the draft, much like last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:47 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
It won't happen because of the timing and salary cap.

Steelers have to clear enough cap space to make Bell an offer-- they have to have the available cap space when they offer the franchise tag.

Even if they let Bell walk, they're $3M over the cap, so they have to make cuts/restructures before doing anything. Then there's the whole waiting to hear from the league office if they get any relief from Shazier's contract cap hit. This will take time.

Tre Boston will probably be one of the first FAs to sign, and we'll probably sign one of the last.

My guess? They will clear cap space, sign Bell to too big a deal, sign a bottom tier FA at ILB and and call it a day until the draft. Kevin Pierre-Louis at 3 yrs, 9M would have been a good bet... right up until he was arrested last week for marijuana possession.



Marijuana you mean the devil's weed, wacky tabacky, reefer, mary jane, ganja, :o :o :o What is happening to todays youth :cry: :cry: SAD

Wow I just hope they Mr Pierre-Louis the help he needs.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:19 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I think it's way more likely the Steelers acquire a couple of guys after the draft, much like last year.


Exactly.

I also don't know why most people are assuming the restructures yesterday are for a Bell extension. Everything reported during the season and afterwards is that the Steelers plan to tag Bell and that they're not close on any extension. They have to have that room under the cap when they place him on the tag again.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 12:39 pm 
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I personally want nothing to do with Timmons. He has definitely lost his step(s) and as far as I'm concerned they pulled the plug at the right time releasing him. Not even for depth. I think they target a ILB as B2B states after the draft and likely roll with Mitchell one more season ending their contract obligations with him after the 18 season. Drafting a Safety in this years draft is I think priority. Secondary is the weakest link on this defense. Sparingly play your high draft pick Safety for a season while he's able to acclimate himself on ST's. Perhaps have him part of certain defensive schemes where he's not asked to think a lot and just react.

Some available ILB's currently...

Jonathon Bostic
Todd Davis
Preston Brown
Anthony Hictchens
Avery Williamson
Corey Nelson
Ben Heeney


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 1:02 pm 
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https://walterfootball.com/freeagents2018S.php

Please tell me the MM replacement is on that list

I can’t take anymore

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:31 pm 
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He may be long gone after the draft concludes but I take a long look at Terrence Brooks.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Honestly? There really are no free agents on defense that I am interested in. ILBs and Safeties are very, very average. This year to me is really one of the worst free agency offseasons that I can remember. People always say there is gold in them there hills, but I don't see it, not this year, all I see is plenty of fool's gold.

In terms of the cap:

They could extend Haden and free up $6-7 million.
They could extend McDonald and free up $2 million.
Big Al signed that contract last year and has a $3 million roster bonus, they could restructure that 3 plus 2 of his base and and free up $3.33 million.

We will lose Hubbard and Gilbert is only under contract for two more years. They could give him an extension and free up perhaps $2-3 million.

Antonio Brown has a roster bonus of $6 million, they could restructure that, spread it out over 4 years but that gives us $4.5 million of relief this year.

Ben can sign a one year extension, they can take his $5 million roster bonus this year and say $5 million of his base and spread that out over 3 years, result, $6.67 million.

Add all of that up and that is $26-27 million, not counting that Decastro and Tuitt restructures. Adding them means we are up to $35 million if the Steelers followed my directions.

Then yeah, you throw in the cuts, Wilcox is due $3.125 million, even with a rookie draft pick or UDFA with displacement, you subtract that but it still comes out to $2.6 million saved.

Mitchell only saves us $5 million by cutting his base salary, he restructured twice and we have to account for those prorated portions left. But even if we draft a first round pick at safety at the end of the round, he would only have a cap hit of some $1 million. So cutting Mitchell and drafting a first round safety saves us $4 million, if we draft a safety in round 2 that savings would be $4.25 million.

So, cutting Mitchell and Wilcox and replacing them with a high round draft pick and lowly draft pick or UDFA saves you $6.85 million.

I am now up around $42 million.

Cut Willie Gay and his $1.75 million, subtracting $555,000 for the player that replaces him, still is a savings of $1.2 million.
Cut Coty Sensabaugh and his $1.4 million, subtracting $555,000 for the player that replaces him, still a savings of $850,000.
Cut Hayward-Bey and his $1.2 million, subtracting $555,000 for the, etc, a savings of $650,000.

That is another $2.7 million. Hey, I am almost up to $45 million!!!

The Steelers even with having to absorb Bell and Shazier's numbers are still going to be in decent shape this year. I see them signing their own, like Rosie Nix and maybe Boz and then holding tight until the 2nd and 3rd waves of free agency. People get too stoked for the opening days of free agency in March and forget that it happens in waves.

Players become available after the draft, after cuts. How did we get Joe Haden and Vance McDonald last season? We didn't sign them in early March did we? No, we picked them up in August.

What about the player escalators at least 2 players will receive in 2018? James and Bryant both receive them. Increasing their combined cap hit to $2.5Mil...
Do you try and offer C2's or do you absorb the cap hit and play them out?


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 5:11 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Honestly? There really are no free agents on defense that I am interested in. ILBs and Safeties are very, very average. This year to me is really one of the worst free agency offseasons that I can remember. People always say there is gold in them there hills, but I don't see it, not this year, all I see is plenty of fool's gold.

In terms of the cap:

They could extend Haden and free up $6-7 million.
They could extend McDonald and free up $2 million.
Big Al signed that contract last year and has a $3 million roster bonus, they could restructure that 3 plus 2 of his base and and free up $3.33 million.

We will lose Hubbard and Gilbert is only under contract for two more years. They could give him an extension and free up perhaps $2-3 million.

Antonio Brown has a roster bonus of $6 million, they could restructure that, spread it out over 4 years but that gives us $4.5 million of relief this year.

Ben can sign a one year extension, they can take his $5 million roster bonus this year and say $5 million of his base and spread that out over 3 years, result, $6.67 million.

Add all of that up and that is $26-27 million, not counting that Decastro and Tuitt restructures. Adding them means we are up to $35 million if the Steelers followed my directions.

Then yeah, you throw in the cuts, Wilcox is due $3.125 million, even with a rookie draft pick or UDFA with displacement, you subtract that but it still comes out to $2.6 million saved.

Mitchell only saves us $5 million by cutting his base salary, he restructured twice and we have to account for those prorated portions left. But even if we draft a first round pick at safety at the end of the round, he would only have a cap hit of some $1 million. So cutting Mitchell and drafting a first round safety saves us $4 million, if we draft a safety in round 2 that savings would be $4.25 million.

So, cutting Mitchell and Wilcox and replacing them with a high round draft pick and lowly draft pick or UDFA saves you $6.85 million.

I am now up around $42 million.

Cut Willie Gay and his $1.75 million, subtracting $555,000 for the player that replaces him, still is a savings of $1.2 million.
Cut Coty Sensabaugh and his $1.4 million, subtracting $555,000 for the player that replaces him, still a savings of $850,000.
Cut Hayward-Bey and his $1.2 million, subtracting $555,000 for the, etc, a savings of $650,000.

That is another $2.7 million. Hey, I am almost up to $45 million!!!

The Steelers even with having to absorb Bell and Shazier's numbers are still going to be in decent shape this year. I see them signing their own, like Rosie Nix and maybe Boz and then holding tight until the 2nd and 3rd waves of free agency. People get too stoked for the opening days of free agency in March and forget that it happens in waves.

Players become available after the draft, after cuts. How did we get Joe Haden and Vance McDonald last season? We didn't sign them in early March did we? No, we picked them up in August.

What about the player escalators at least 2 players will receive in 2018? James and Bryant both receive them. Increasing their combined cap hit to $2.5Mil...
Do you try and offer C2's or do you absorb the cap hit and play them out?


James is an unathletic JAG that is a 3rd or 4 TE. No way would I ever offer him C2. They should be drafting his replacement. Bryant is a drug risk. He should be playing out this contract to prove he can stay clean. If so, then extend.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I personally want nothing to do with Timmons. He has definitely lost his step(s) and as far as I'm concerned they pulled the plug at the right time releasing him. Not even for depth. I think they target a ILB as B2B states after the draft and likely roll with Mitchell one more season ending their contract obligations with him after the 18 season. Drafting a Safety in this years draft is I think priority. Secondary is the weakest link on this defense. Sparingly play your high draft pick Safety for a season while he's able to acclimate himself on ST's. Perhaps have him part of certain defensive schemes where he's not asked to think a lot and just react.

Some available ILB's currently...

Jonathon Bostic
Todd Davis
Preston Brown
Anthony Hictchens
Avery Williamson
Corey Nelson
Ben Heeney


We aren't winning a super bowl with Mike Mitchell as the starting free safety.... as such, he needs to be GONE this year and replaced with a veteran who will actually prevent big plays.

We have the money to do it. They just need to restructure guys. If its not done, its another example of buffoonery.

As far as Timmons goes, I disagree with him being a lost cause. I think he can give you solid work on run downs. He and Vince Williams give you a good sable of Buck linebackers.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:34 pm 
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We won a super bowl with Kendall Simmons, Chris Kemoeatu, Justin Hartwig, Willie Colon, & freaking Darnell Stapleton. I think it's unlikely Mike Mitchell is a Super Bowl-quality S, but impossible to rule out.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:53 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
We won a super bowl with Kendall Simmons, Chris Kemoeatu, Justin Hartwig, Willie Colon, & freaking Darnell Stapleton. I think it's unlikely Mike Mitchell is a Super Bowl-quality S, but impossible to rule out.


That really was a pathetic unit.

Nothing will convince me that Mitchell fits in anymore. He can play as a box safety somewhere else. He makes no plays on the ball, and he doesnt tackle well down the field. He is a one trick pony - guy can draw PI calls and generate bulletin board material. Time to move on.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 6:38 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:38 am 
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Mitchell is a SS that can’t cover a TE or slot, so he can’t play in the box... but he also is late in zone coverage which makes him ineffective as a FS.

Davis is probably more FS, although he, too, struggles in zone, so he’s forced to play out of position at SS, where his lack of build makes him sucsceptible to getting run over and out positioned by TEs.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:07 pm 
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All to true, B2B, funny how the times I have seen Davis playing deep and is able to read the QB and see routes develop, playing centerfield so to speak, he was able to make plays on the ball. This guy is supposed to be smart, speaks 3 languages, and I know he has the requisite speed and athletic ability, yet the Steelers are playing him out of position. He is not an in the box safety, not a beastly run stuffer. You put him back on the backend of the secondary and I think you have a much different and better player.

Also, it is amazing to me the player that Mike Mitchell was that last year in Carolina. They actually played him close to the line of scrimmage, used him a lot to blitz and get sacks.

This is what Mitchell did that year for Carolina, 72 tackles, 4 INTs, 2 FF, 10 passes defensed, and 4 sacks in just 14 games started. What the hell happened to that playmaker? I have always thought that the Steelers never really put Mitchell in the best position to be successful. Of course now injuries and time have taken their toll on Mitchell and he has fallen considerably as a player. Even so, something is wrong when you clearly have players like Davis and Mitchell miscast and playing out of position. Hopefully, maybe Bradley makes a difference and brings a fresh set of eyes and perspective and questions why these players have been miscast in their roles.

In terms of Jesse James and/or Bryant getting some sort of escalators/money based on performance or playing time? That is news to me. Both are going to have a hard time/rough sledding with Vance McDonald and JuJu getting more and more comfortable with Ben. James and Bryant are living on borrowed time, I can see both being off the team in 2019.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:11 pm 
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MJB, I didn't endorse Mitchell staying on the roster. I foresee him remaining because that's Steeler way. Not because Mitchell deserves to stay. As far as Timmons goes. I think I read somewhere in here he's likely to play out what's left of his career in Miami. No way is he a tradeable player with the $8+ Mil he's penciled in to make this season. Miami won't cut him either as they'll still be on the hook for most of his salary. I don't see Timmons leaving Miami. The other names I listed are players that will likely be gone as well. The Steelers will not be first in line for anything FA related. They'll wait it out as usual and go slumming off the scrap heap. I agree with your premise of replacing Shazier and adding depth. That being such a tall order I'm not sure how they'll accomplish it. Speculating they'll draft a guy and likely bring in some tryout players. Perhaps they'll get extremely lucky one of the guys that are already on the roster will blow up the scene and earn his right onto the roster. Wait and see mode.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:17 pm 
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If you play Mike Mitchell in the box, you'd better have a hell of a pass rush because Mitchell isn't covering anyone for very long. Using MM like a LB, it sort of works.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:17 pm 
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What about Davis at FS - his more natural position, and taking a look at Su'a Cravens for SS. My guess is he could be had for a late round pick via Washington. IF he checks out health wise, which I believe was done by Pitt MD, then he might be worth a flyer. Word is he's probably done in DC. Hell, he might be able to play Shazier's role? Is it worth a late round shot, even though he might be a bit of a head case (no pun intended)?


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:21 pm 
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If you play like MM you'll have the whole fan base booing your ass and wanting you gone. Every opposing offense you face would be salivating all over themselves anticipating the long plays they know you'd take horrible angles to and then pathetically miss the tackle anyway.

I agree with the assessment that Davis is being played out of 'natural' position. I believe Davis was a corner in college as well as played some safety. Says FS to me all day long. Where Davis has played he really hasn't done terrible either. Some of that was coaching and some of it is God given talent. That said, I agree the Steelers have to lock up a SS/ILB hybrid type as has been discussed ad nauseam around these parts.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm 
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DP39 wrote:
What about Davis at FS - his more natural position, and taking a look at Su'a Cravens for SS. My guess is he could be had for a late round pick via Washington. IF he checks out health wise, which I believe was done by Pitt MD, then he might be worth a flyer. Word is he's probably done in DC. Hell, he might be able to play Shazier's role? Is it worth a late round shot, even though he might be a bit of a head case (no pun intended)?

I agree with the Cravens idea. He applied for reinstatement yesterday I believe. What are the chances? Skins may be open to a trade: http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/red ... n-redskins


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:36 pm 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
DP39 wrote:
What about Davis at FS - his more natural position, and taking a look at Su'a Cravens for SS. My guess is he could be had for a late round pick via Washington. IF he checks out health wise, which I believe was done by Pitt MD, then he might be worth a flyer. Word is he's probably done in DC. Hell, he might be able to play Shazier's role? Is it worth a late round shot, even though he might be a bit of a head case (no pun intended)?

I agree with the Cravens idea. He applied for reinstatement yesterday I believe. What are the chances? Skins may be open to a trade: http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/red ... n-redskins

I would think between the Pitt MD handling him, Lynn Swann and JuJu we could probably get a pretty good read on the guy.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:36 pm 
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I think who you want to be the starting SS and a S/LB hybrid are two different players, unless that S/LB hybrid is REALLY good in coverage going backwards... something it took Shazier 3 years to get good at.

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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:52 pm 
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May not go over well, but I'd trade Bryant straight up for Cravens. There I said it.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:50 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I think who you want to be the starting SS and a S/LB hybrid are two different players, unless that S/LB hybrid is REALLY good in coverage going backwards... something it took Shazier 3 years to get good at.


Sure, that why I said some of our guys might have a good read on him.

I wouldn't mind them looking at Nigel Bradham (maybe $4-5m/per) for inside/outside LB either. He and Watt might be able to swap some, create different looks and still provide good coverage and pass rush.


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 Post subject: Re: Dump Mike Mitchell for Tre Boston
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:11 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
I personally want nothing to do with Timmons. He has definitely lost his step(s) and as far as I'm concerned they pulled the plug at the right time releasing him. Not even for depth. I think they target a ILB as B2B states after the draft and likely roll with Mitchell one more season ending their contract obligations with him after the 18 season. Drafting a Safety in this years draft is I think priority. Secondary is the weakest link on this defense. Sparingly play your high draft pick Safety for a season while he's able to acclimate himself on ST's. Perhaps have him part of certain defensive schemes where he's not asked to think a lot and just react.

Some available ILB's currently...

Jonathon Bostic
Todd Davis
Preston Brown
Anthony Hictchens
Avery Williamson
Corey Nelson
Ben Heeney


I'm not so sure I wouldn't rather have a band-aid at ILB as a free agent. Lets be honest, we're not gonna replace Shazier, in the next two seasons, no matter what we do or who is available. I think I would rather have Derrick Johnson (Chiefs LB) as a band aid. 35 yrs old I know BUT; out with Deebo and in with Derrick. I think I would even take Derrick over losing something in a trade for Timmons.

I may be wrong but a 35 yr old LB SHOULDN'T command a high salary out of the Steelers cap range. Two yr contract and you have a band aid/insurance until this yrs 1st or 2nd round draft pick "becomes a man".

To me Derrick is kinda of a perfect fit at the moment. At the VERY LEAST, hes STILL a pretty BIG upgrade to our porous run defense. Plus, does he want to play for a SB or go to a team with cap abundance for the money?

Sign Derrick right now and then look to fix the hole at the safety position later but sometime before the draft. Can the Steelers swing Derrick Johnson (LB) to a decent salary and then go BIG, hard and strong at say Joyner (Safety)? I'm thinking, that would be sweet. Joyner the big FA signing they never make but really need this year AND Derrick Johnson, as a patch/band aid. BOTH huge roster holes/needs fixed, and before the draft!!!

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22423126/kansas-city-chiefs-re-sign-long-star-derrick-johnson


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