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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:36 pm 
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FC wrote:
I do not mean to hijack the thread.

I was not a Ryan Shazier fan as a player.

If you are looking for a Ryan Shazier clone let me introduce you too....Jerome Baker





Your opinion on Roquan Smith FC?


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:49 pm 
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I'll give you mine: 2 down player in the NFL

Roquan is an unbelievable downhill player. Like, tremendous.

But as soon as you get past his rear view mirrors, he's pedestrian. Gave up at least 2 bad TDs in coverage during CFB playoffs.

Roquan would be an awesome buck but he's not going to be replacing Shazier at the Mack.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:51 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
Both Super Bowl teams had RB by committee.

Bell either signs a reasonable deal, or let him walk, fix the D, and learn how to get better production out of RB by committee.

Tomlin wants to prove he's a good coach?

Stop trying to load up at star players at every position so you can coast by on them.


Great idea. let's get mediocre players at every position and really make it a challenge.

I kid.

No RB is worth $15M per. Skill position players on balance are vastly over rated and over paid. Interesting thought that the best skill guys on both Pats and Eagles are TEs

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:52 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'll give you mine: 2 down player in the NFL

Roquan is an unbelievable downhill player. Like, tremendous.

But as soon as you get past his rear view mirrors, he's pedestrian. Gave up at least 2 bad TDs in coverage during CFB playoffs.

Roquan would be an awesome buck but he's not going to be replacing Shazier at the Mack.




interesting take, hes been drawing alot of comps to pat willis lately..i know draft time buzz and all everyone gets built up to be the next great thing


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:55 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'll give you mine: 2 down player in the NFL

Roquan is an unbelievable downhill player. Like, tremendous.

But as soon as you get past his rear view mirrors, he's pedestrian. Gave up at least 2 bad TDs in coverage during CFB playoffs.

Roquan would be an awesome buck but he's not going to be replacing Shazier at the Mack.




interesting take, hes been drawing alot of comps to pat willis lately..i know draft time buzz and all everyone gets built up to be the next great thing

I have 3 Macks ahead of him and 3-4 at bout the same tier... as a Mack. As a Buck, he's #1, easily.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:59 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
I'll give you mine: 2 down player in the NFL

Roquan is an unbelievable downhill player. Like, tremendous.

But as soon as you get past his rear view mirrors, he's pedestrian. Gave up at least 2 bad TDs in coverage during CFB playoffs.

Roquan would be an awesome buck but he's not going to be replacing Shazier at the Mack.




interesting take, hes been drawing alot of comps to pat willis lately..i know draft time buzz and all everyone gets built up to be the next great thing

I have 3 Macks ahead of him and 3-4 at bout the same tier... as a Mack. As a Buck, he's #1, easily.




Van der Esch? Edmunds?


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Wait for the draft to find out :)

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:38 pm 
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TB wrote:
steel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
The problem is: we don't even have one above average RB on the roster at this moment.


with $15,000,000.00, we can easily buy a very good RB committee, plus sign several impact D players.


Not really.


Why not?

Lewis/Blunt/White collectively make less than $5M/year

add 2 solid guys on Defense at $5M/ year each

there's your $15M


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 1:40 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
Theres a few good and better safety options in free agency over Mitchell, at ILB, not so much, Roquan Smith is a do it all speed ILB in the mold of #50


We need both a FS and SS....and we have to do A LOT better than Mitchell.

Don't get your hopes up on ILB....VWill and Timmons are going to be your 2018 starterse :lol:

My bets on VWill and Spence... but same point.
FUck no. Spence should retire, and VWill is quality depth only.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 2:39 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
My bets on VWill and Spence... but same point.
FUck no. Spence should retire, and VWill is quality depth only.[/quote]

He's a solid role player....Larry Foote-type. And that's what that position is in this defense. They need to replace Shazier, and probably Dudpree.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:07 pm 
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While I would rather let Bell walk than FT him, I don't think we will.
It ties up our cap to the point where we can't get any help at FS or ILB.
KC doesn't like going into a draft with major holes. He has 2 on defense.

If Bell stays via the FT, we will obviously get a 3rd comp next year.
Look for us to pull off a trade similar to what they did with Shamarko years back.
We trade our original 2019 3rd for a mid-4th this year. That makes up for the McDonald trade.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Time to cut bait with the Le'veon Bell clown show. Let him try to find his greener pastures.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:15 pm 
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We need a LOLB, MLB, and FS in the worst possible way. If Hargrave continues to suck and the injury rumor was a myth...we have real problems at NT too.

Dumping 14 million on a RB in today's NFL is insanity. With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:40 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
We need a LOLB, MLB, and FS in the worst possible way. If Hargrave continues to suck and the injury rumor was a myth...we have real problems at NT too.

Dumping 14 million on a RB in today's NFL is insanity. With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.
Hopefully bell is listening to the chatter.

If he signs for the big money, then we know where his priorities are.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 4:50 pm 
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franco32 wrote:
With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


LOL, no. In today's NFL, $5M in FA will get you a safety of Mike Mitchell's caliber - consider that Wilcox was $3M a year.

If you take a bit of a risk, $7M MIGHT get you a decent defensive FA. You spend $14M on two defense FA's, one might end-up being a player and the other a JAG. Sure, we'd take that, but let's not get carried away with what $14M is actually going to do with you in FA.

The way the cap has gone up in recent years you have to build your team almost exclusively thru the draft. "Fix" 2 defensive positions AND sign a decent RB - you're talking $20M+, easy.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
franco32 wrote:
With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


LOL, no. In today's NFL, $5M in FA will get you a safety of Mike Mitchell's caliber - consider that Wilcox was $3M a year.

You base your opinion on numbers alone. It's like a real estate agent using comps to tell you what your house is worth. It's useful up until a certain point.

Along comes somebody that loves the tile in the kitchen, the gazebo in the back yard, and the numbers go flying out the double pane bay window.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Imagine the kitchen has upgraded appliances.....

I love these homebuying analogies

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:12 pm 
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BarryFoster wrote:
Imagine the kitchen has upgraded appliances.....

I love these homebuying analogies
I can put a price tag on upgraded appliances.

But how do you value : " I just love the red streaks in the tile, and the gazebo is just so cute!!!"

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
franco32 wrote:
With 14 million you can fix 2 positions on D and sign a decent RB free agent. We have to stop the insanity around Bell.


LOL, no. In today's NFL, $5M in FA will get you a safety of Mike Mitchell's caliber - consider that Wilcox was $3M a year.

If you take a bit of a risk, $7M MIGHT get you a decent defensive FA. You spend $14M on two defense FA's, one might end-up being a player and the other a JAG. Sure, we'd take that, but let's not get carried away with what $14M is actually going to do with you in FA.

The way the cap has gone up in recent years you have to build your team almost exclusively thru the draft. "Fix" 2 defensive positions AND sign a decent RB - you're talking $20M+, easy.

This may be true overall, but it's overstating the cap hits in year 1, which is our primary concern. 14M is enough for 2018.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 10:59 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
Along comes somebody that loves the tile in the kitchen, the gazebo in the back yard, and the numbers go flying out the double pane bay window.


a.k.a. "the sucker"....problem is, in this scenario the player is the seller, which makes PIT the sucker

Congrats, you succinctly explained why overpaying other teams' castoffs is usually a bad bet.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:04 pm 
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seabs926 wrote:
This may be true overall, but it's overstating the cap hits in year 1, which is our primary concern. 14M is enough for 2018.


Money is money and the cap is fungible. The primary concern is getting value for the money you actually pay out, especially now that excess cap rolls over (and in reverse pushing money off into future years just as easily).

They could create all kinds of cap space extending & restructuring Ben alone. I'm merely giving a reality check to the fantasy that saving $14.5M in one year is some sort of windfall to load the team up in FA.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:09 pm 
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Kodiak wrote:
seabs926 wrote:
This may be true overall, but it's overstating the cap hits in year 1, which is our primary concern. 14M is enough for 2018.


Money is money and the cap is fungible. The primary concern is getting value for the money you actually pay out, especially now that excess cap rolls over (and in reverse pushing money off into future years just as easily).

They could create all kinds of cap space extending & restructuring Ben alone. I'm merely giving a reality check to the fantasy that saving $14.5M in one year is some sort of windfall to load the team up in FA.

I think the fear isn’t so much the 14.5 on the one year tag, but rather 15+ per on a 4-5 year deal.
Speaking for myself, I’d love to keep Bell long term, but at the same time, make some defensive improvements. I don’t know that they can do both...tough decisions ahead.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:27 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
I think the fear isn’t so much the 14.5 on the one year tag, but rather 15+ per on a 4-5 year deal.


I completely agree. I'm just responding to the idea that we not tagging Bell lets us sign "2 good defensive guys and a decent RB". Pure fantasy.

I could find the money to pay BOTH Bell and JJ Watt $20M for the next two years.... and then I'm cutting everybody worth a damn after that to get out of cap hell, but the point is fielding a good team is about getting value for you money. Period.

Like the Haden deal last year was a steal, because it cost them nothing to walk away if they wanted to after a year. Deals like that aren't that rare, it's just rare they actually end-up being valuable (similar deal with Wilcox and another guy....jury might still be out on MacDonald).

I doubt anyone manages their cap compartmentalizing a single year. That's just accounting and maneuvering to get under a number. I would think most teams view their cap over 3-5 years.

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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:10 am 
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GreekSteel wrote:
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Until there is actually a resolution—or until something awful happens—the most significant story about the 2018 offseason for the Pittsburgh Steelers is going to be the Le’Veon Bell saga and whether or not he will come to terms with the team. Failing that, the Steelers will have to decide whether or not to put the franchise tag on him. otherwise he will become an unrestricted free agent.

The Steelers running back is a two-time All-Pro and is the most productive player in the NFL in terms of yards gained per game played since he has come into the league. He is actually at the most productive pace in NFL history, becoming the fastest player to reach 8000 yards from scrimmage.

Now that the season is over, we have a bit more than a month before the new league year begins, but it will be only a couple of weeks before the team can place the franchise tag on him. it is currently unknow when or if the Steelers intend to do that in the event of the failure to reach a contract agreement.

Bell himself has said that he feels as though the two sides are “night and day” in comparison to last season, referring to the proximity toward getting a contract done. He also said that the two sides have created an artificial deadline of wanting to finish a deal prior to the date at which the franchise tag can be applied.

The problem is that Bell is the only person from which we have heard these reports. Previously, Adam Schefter cast doubt on the running back’s interpretation of events. Now, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette beat writer Ed Bouchette is doing the same.

During a recent chat session through the newspaper’s website, the veteran reporter fielded a question about whether or not the sides are as close to a deal as has been reported. “The only one who has ‘reported’ they are close to a deal is Le’Veon himself”, Bouchette replied. “I was told that is just not true”.

The paper’s account of events would seem to corroborate Schefter’s earlier report, which maintained that there have been no serious talks nor any significant progress made toward a deal. In this case, Bouchette is saying outright that he is being told a deal is not close, which is pretty significant.

Earlier in the chat, he was also asked about his ‘sense’ on whether or not a deal will ultimately get done. He responded that he is “still unsure whether Bell will be with them or not” and that he is “trying to get a better feel on that”.

Regardless of how opinions vary on whether or not a deal will get done with the All-Pro, the sides are even more sharply divided over whether or not the Steelers should re-sign him for what it would inevitably cost, which figures to be, on the low end, about $14 million per season.

I believe the Steelers have been late negotiators so who knows what will happen in a few weeks, but I am guessing he either signs a long term deal or they let him walk and we get a 3. I don't think they are going to tag him again and have to deal with the drama.


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 Post subject: Re: Bouchette: Bell/Steelers not close to a deal
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 11:24 am 
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Suwanee88 wrote:
...and have to deal with the drama.


That's the great unknown factor here. There are a lot of savvy ways to handle this, but Colbert is a pretty plain vanilla guy when it comes to managing the cap.

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