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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:33 pm 
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If we're talking Josh Allen, I think he could find himself gone in Round 1 this year. Not because I'm sold on him as a legit NFL starter per se (even though his previous season's tape, before all the defections on the offensive side of the ball, was actually pretty good), but because QB is going to be overdrafted as usual.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:39 pm 
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Ice wrote:
If we're talking Josh Allen, I think he could find himself gone in Round 1 this year. Not because I'm sold on him as a legit NFL starter per se (even though his previous season's tape, before all the defections on the offensive side of the ball, was actually pretty good), but because QB is going to be overdrafted as usual.

Sorry, meant Kyle Allen from Houston.

Josh Allen has the most NFL upside of any QB in this draft. Period. End of sentence. Sure, he has issues and could easily be derailed by a bad staff or bad team but he's at least got more going for him than Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield.

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:48 pm 
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I like Allen as the number 2 QB in this draft.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:09 pm 
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1. Mayfield
2. Allen
3. Jackson
4. Darnold
4. Rosen


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:34 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Ice wrote:
If we're talking Josh Allen, I think he could find himself gone in Round 1 this year. Not because I'm sold on him as a legit NFL starter per se (even though his previous season's tape, before all the defections on the offensive side of the ball, was actually pretty good), but because QB is going to be overdrafted as usual.

Sorry, meant Kyle Allen from Houston.

Josh Allen has the most NFL upside of any QB in this draft. Period. End of sentence. Sure, he has issues and could easily be derailed by a bad staff or bad team but he's at least got more going for him than Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield.




umm no, just no...

ps im still waiting on your paxton lynch is the next great qb to become a thing :D


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Paxton Lynch has off-the-field issues that I didn't know about and that totally sabotaged his career. He's not as good as his good tape from college showed and you were right.

Josh Allen isn't great, but he's had moments.

Darnold and especially Rosen will fail in Cleveland-- Rosen because he's a dome QB with insufficient arm strength to throw by the lake in bad weather and Darnold because he seems to be getting worse by the day as a passer. I don't see either guy zipping the ball into a tight seam window, let alone hitting an NFL hole shot vs cover 2 or over top of the LB in front of the safety. Way too much air/touch on the ball for both guys, throwing to mostly wide open guys in college.

I like Mayfield's makeup and leadership... but I don't see him having the size or the game to get good looks and put the ball in NFL tight windows.

I don't really trust any of them to do that out of the gate.

Which is why I said: Foles to the Browns makes the most sense if Wentz will be able to start the season.

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 6:45 pm 
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By the way, Greek, the only QBs in the draft I've actually liked to be great were:

Marino
Elway
Kordell
Ben
Rivers
Mahomes

I did okay. Kordell had some moments where it looked like he was going to be a superstar. Just never cleared the hump and got jerked around a little with the parade of OCs/being ahead of his time. Like, how good would young Kordell be in an 2018 era offense?

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:18 pm 
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I definitely think Allen is being punished on this year's tape due to the fact that all the offensive losses between last season and this one are being overlooked. He's got a lot of talent.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:24 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, Greek, the only QBs in the draft I've actually liked to be great were:

Marino
Elway
Kordell
Ben
Rivers
Mahomes

I did okay. Kordell had some moments where it looked like he was going to be a superstar. Just never cleared the hump and got jerked around a little with the parade of OCs/being ahead of his time. Like, how good would young Kordell be in an 2018 era offense?


My list is shorter for QBs
Ben
Russell Wilson
Elway
Brees

Those are the ones I picked out from college to be good in the NFL and was right. 3 out of 4 I saw play live.

I have zero confidence in Mayfield. He has trouble throwing into tight windows. Watch him in the Oka St. and Iowa St. games. I like Allen but he has some issues. I like Nick Fitzgerald but he is not coming out. I like 3 freshman this year Tagovailoa, Fromm and McKenzie ( CFU).

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:44 pm 
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Bidding is hot and heavy for the first overall pick. Don’t miss out!


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 7:48 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, Greek, the only QBs in the draft I've actually liked to be great were:

Marino
Elway
Kordell
Ben
Rivers
Mahomes

I did okay. Kordell had some moments where it looked like he was going to be a superstar. Just never cleared the hump and got jerked around a little with the parade of OCs/being ahead of his time. Like, how good would young Kordell be in an 2018 era offense?



Oh i wasnt implying you dont do great, you know your stuff come draft time, just a friendly jab at you my man. We shall see on Mahomes, i do like him even alot but not as sold as you are on him.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:20 pm 
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SP wrote:
Bidding is hot and heavy for the first overall pick. Don’t miss out!


That was actually a pretty funny Seinfeld episode.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:30 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
By the way, Greek, the only QBs in the draft I've actually liked to be great were:

Marino
Elway
Kordell
Ben
Rivers
Mahomes

I did okay. Kordell had some moments where it looked like he was going to be a superstar. Just never cleared the hump and got jerked around a little with the parade of OCs/being ahead of his time. Like, how good would young Kordell be in an 2018 era offense?



Oh i wasnt implying you dont do great, you know your stuff come draft time, just a friendly jab at you my man. We shall see on Mahomes, i do like him even alot but not as sold as you are on him.



Btw im being a pain in your ass going after Tomlin so ill save my comments on Kordell :D


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 8:53 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Like, how good would young Kordell be in an 2018 era offense?


Not very. He’d still be dumb, mentally weak, and a very inaccurate passer...
Today’s new style offenses need a QB to be in control, make decisions on the fly, and throw quick in to tight windows. All things that Kordell sucked at!
The guy was a bum then...he’d be a bum now.

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Kordell couldn’t play in the modern NFL because he couldn’t complete a check down. Seriously, the worst part of his game was short passses. He’d routinely skip them three yards in front of the receivers feet. .


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:29 pm 
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Kordell's kryptonite was definitely the short out pattern.

But that guy could just run RPOs and PA RPOs for deep ball all night and he would have been just fine. They tried desperately to make him into a pocket passer and he was terrible at that. Running the option, Kordell was top 5 all time in college. I saw his whole career there and he was out of this world. Ran a hand-timed 4.1 at altitude. Could throw it 80 yards, outrun anyone on any college team in his era, never took a shot running it because he had that little wiggle at the last second. You guys can knock him all you want, but he won some games, he came damn close to winning MVP in 97. 5 GWD, 4 4thQ comebacks, 21 passing TDs, 2nd on the team in rushing yards, 11 rushing TDs. For comparison, Neil O'Donnell's best year ('95) he had only 17 passing TDs.

Of course, once I saw him play WR, I was sold that a move would have been great for him... but not meant to be.

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:40 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Kordell's kryptonite was definitely the short out pattern.

But that guy could just run RPOs and PA RPOs for deep ball all night and he would have been just fine. They tried desperately to make him into a pocket passer and he was terrible at that. Running the option, Kordell was top 5 all time in college. I saw his whole career there and he was out of this world. Ran a hand-timed 4.1 at altitude. Could throw it 80 yards, outrun anyone on any college team in his era, never took a shot running it because he had that little wiggle at the last second. You guys can knock him all you want, but he won some games, he came damn close to winning MVP in 97. 5 GWD, 4 4thQ comebacks, 21 passing TDs, 2nd on the team in rushing yards, 11 rushing TDs. For comparison, Neil O'Donnell's best year ('95) he had only 17 passing TDs.

Of course, once I saw him play WR, I was sold that a move would have been great for him... but not meant to be.

But you have to be a pocket passer to win the super bowl. Kordell wasn't, and he wasn't ever going to win a super bowl. All that athleticism is great, but when push comes to shove, when there's two minutes on the clock in the super bowl and you need a TD to win, you better be able to pass accurately and read defenses, and I don't think Kordell was ever going to be that guy.

Or should I say, when you're down by 7 at home in the fourth quarter of the AFCCG against the Patriots, you better be able to pass accurately rather than, say, throw an untimely INT.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:07 am 
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No doubt, Kordell wasn't a Super Bowl capable QB. I'm just saying, he would have been better in this era (or, say, 5 years ago era) than in the late 90s NFL. I think he could do what Blake Bortles is doing, for instance-- and probably better than Bortles is doing it.

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 11:39 am 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
No doubt, Kordell wasn't a Super Bowl capable QB. I'm just saying, he would have been better in this era (or, say, 5 years ago era) than in the late 90s NFL. I think he could do what Blake Bortles is doing, for instance-- and probably better than Bortles is doing it.


Kordell's performance in that 7-6 win over the Pete Carroll Pats was Bortley.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Miami is willing to trade Tannehill and some late round picks to move up.

PM me if interested.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:42 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Kordell's kryptonite was definitely the short out pattern.

But that guy could just run RPOs and PA RPOs for deep ball all night and he would have been just fine. They tried desperately to make him into a pocket passer and he was terrible at that. Running the option, Kordell was top 5 all time in college. I saw his whole career there and he was out of this world. Ran a hand-timed 4.1 at altitude. Could throw it 80 yards, outrun anyone on any college team in his era, never took a shot running it because he had that little wiggle at the last second. You guys can knock him all you want, but he won some games, he came damn close to winning MVP in 97. 5 GWD, 4 4thQ comebacks, 21 passing TDs, 2nd on the team in rushing yards, 11 rushing TDs. For comparison, Neil O'Donnell's best year ('95) he had only 17 passing TDs.

Of course, once I saw him play WR, I was sold that a move would have been great for him... but not meant to be.

If I remember correctly, it was Kordell himself that insisted he was a pocket passer. And of course, his daddy, the great Cahr, gave him what he wanted. Talk about a creepy coach/QB relationship...

I always thought Korky would make a great RB. Good size, outstanding speed, and strong and as hell. “Run Forrest run!”

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 1:10 pm 
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I think maybe you speak of Kordell talking about how he was trying to prove he could do what they wanted... but early in his career, they beat his natural style out of him instead of building around his strengths... which were many. I do think Kordell was a sensitive type-- flourished with encouragement and wilted from criticism.

Still:
• the only players in team history with more TD passes are named Bradshaw and Roethlisberger
• his 11 rushing TDs were 5th most in any season of team history
• 11th in team history in scoring by non-kicker

Not a bust.

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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:14 pm 
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The slash role, was absolutley perfect for Kordell, more WR and less QB imo. You werent winning shit with Kordell as a QB1 imo. To me he is the ultimate example of how good a coach Cowher was and the coaching hires he made.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:27 pm 
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GreekSteel wrote:
The slash role, was absolutley perfect for Kordell, more WR and less QB imo. You werent winning shit with Kordell as a QB1 imo. To me he is the ultimate example of how good a coach Cowher was and the coaching hires he made.


In a vacuum, most people said "you ain't winning shit with Nick Foles at the helm." Get a good, creative offensive mind that uses his strengths and finds a way to minimize his weaknesses, add a good defense and a couple of skill players, and maybe you've got something. Put Kordell in an offense that makes creative use of RPO and zone read concepts, adapt your style to his rather than attempt to jam him into the wrong system, and who knows?

The other thing you can't take away from Kordell, he was a durable sumbitch. Barely ever missed a game to injury. Compare that to almost every other zone-read starter/running QB since. Even when I was sick of it and wanted him out, I knew damn well it wouldn't be because he was hurt.


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 Post subject: Re: GM Board Draft Announcement 2018
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 4:03 pm 
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Ice wrote:
GreekSteel wrote:
The slash role, was absolutley perfect for Kordell, more WR and less QB imo. You werent winning shit with Kordell as a QB1 imo. To me he is the ultimate example of how good a coach Cowher was and the coaching hires he made.


In a vacuum, most people said "you ain't winning shit with Nick Foles at the helm." Get a good, creative offensive mind that uses his strengths and finds a way to minimize his weaknesses, add a good defense and a couple of skill players, and maybe you've got something. Put Kordell in an offense that makes creative use of RPO and zone read concepts, adapt your style to his rather than attempt to jam him into the wrong system, and who knows?

The other thing you can't take away from Kordell, he was a durable sumbitch. Barely ever missed a game to injury. Compare that to almost every other zone-read starter/running QB since. Even when I was sick of it and wanted him out, I knew damn well it wouldn't be because he was hurt.

^^^ THIS sums it up

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