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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:32 pm 
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If he woulda thrown 45 TD's in all those attempts that's be one thing, but he didn't. His brain bashed 06 season shouldn't be used for comparison.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:36 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
Well, Ben sucked a whole lot less under him.

No he didn't. And the offense sucked a whole lot more.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:03 pm 
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Lynch wrote:
SteelThrillsseeker wrote:
Scunge wrote:
Antonio Brown is not a has been, but he is not the dominant, once-in-a-lifetime player that many claim either.

My argument the past few years is that Brown was very fortunate to be in an offense that EXCESSIVELY targeted him, featured him and that he had a Hall of Fame QB throwing to him.

My argument is that you can take any sufficiently talented WR, pair him with Ben, feature him, target him 150 times, and you will get much the same results.

JuJu was targeted 79 times as a rookie, then he was targeted 166 times in his 2nd season and responded with 111 catches and 1,426 yards. It really is that simple.

Be it Hines Ward, Holmes, Wallace, Brown, JuJu, if Ben is throwing the ball to you, targeting you over 100+ times in a season, the production, the stats will follow. This is not something that is unique to Antonio Brown because he was somehow 'special'.

Bell did indeed start fumbling the last 24 games of his Steelers career, 7 times in that span. My theory is that teams were starting to play him differently, starting to figure him out, that and the speed and quickness that he had were diminishing because of his injuries.

Funny how two virtual rookies, Conner and Samuels, combined for 16 TDs and 5 100 yard games and were better in nearly every category than Bell in 2017. And this was at one tenth the cost.

What Bell did as a Steeler was underwhelming to me. They fed him the ball, gave him his carries and catches and the most he could ever do in a season was 11 TDs?? I long argued that he should be producing 20+ TDs a season, every season with that kind of workload, yet he never did. And then Conner and JaySam in their first season together combine for 16 TDs?? And now with Snell??

I can see that trio combining for 22-25 touchdowns this season, double of what Bell ever did.

I see 2019 being a repeat of 2018 when it comes to Antonio Brown. There will be those distraught, all gloomy and doomy and predicting the end for our offense without Brown. And then just like last season, the offense will just plug in the next man/men and the offense will continue on as if nothing ever happened. Last season we didn't have Bell, plugged in Conner and then Samuels and the offense got better?? We set team records for red zone offense??

How do we go from having a Red Zone percentage of 50% in 2017 with Bell and then go to 73.5% with Conner and Samuels??

Maybe, just maybe Bell and Brown were holding this offense back. If Brown is not here being excessively fed the football, if Randy gets Ben to spread the football, distribute the football, not force things and end up with INTs maybe Ben has a career year WITHOUT Brown, maybe the offense does too.

Many worry about the 15 TDs that left town with Brown from last season. I celebrate the 10 INTs that left town with Brown because of Ben forcing the ball to Brown so much. Those 15 TDs are just going to be caught by other people this year, the difference is that if 5 of those 10 INTs from last season are not made this season then maybe Ben and the offense scores 5 more TDs.


So much logic. So much positivity. Its gonna be a great year. Huck and chuck football where Ben just slings it. He’ll have some turnovers but it’ll be less than trying to force it to AB’s bitch ass.
I look forward to the season like i look forward to your posts brother.


Zed, we most assuredly DO NOT want Ben going full blown huck and chuck. We need to get him back under some semblance of control, like Haley had him under.

You're trolling, right? Because Haley sucked.[/quote]









Of course he's Trolling. He’s a troll.

That kinda shit is the reason i will not donate another dollar to this site.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:39 pm 
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What? The Zed thing?

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:29 am 
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If you think for a second that Conner is THE MAN - why do you think Snell the bell cow that he is and was was selected and put into the mix.


I have ZERO love for the sPITT program and mind you I was a ball boy back in the day at Pitt Stadium. If you think for a second that impacts my take on Conner being an injury prone JAG then so be it.

He will never ever play a full 16 game season in the big boy league and Snell was taken at the slot he was for a reason - and rightfully so.

We all saw what my man Jay Sam did when given the opportunity last season. Come the F on boys.


Get your head out of your Yinzer rump when evaluating the skill set at play eh ?

Conner is a solid dude that fit the system and he flat out is not good enough on his own as he is a fumbler and soft. He might not see contract 2 as a result of his issues :shock:


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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:57 am 
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The reason why they drafted Snell, IMO, is because the Steelers have put both Samuels and Conner on the Leveon Bell diet plan. Both will come into the 2019 season, slimmer and quicker because they (the Steelers) want both to be dual threats at RB. They have talked about how they plan to use a two RB set where both are on the field. I can imagine them using Samuels more as a move TE, as an H-back, etc. Conner showed nice hands and the ability to tuck and run and get more yards after the catch. Ben talked about this, how he was so impressed about how Conner immediately got up the field after the catch. 55 catches for 497 yards and a 9.0 yards a catch average is pretty impressive.

How impressive was what Conner did catching the ball last season?? Some may look at what he did and say meh!!! Nothing special, what the hell are you talking about Scunge???

Here is a game, take Leveon Bell and eliminate him from the Steeler Record books for catches by a RB. Humor me. Take your fingers and do a Thanos snap and eliminate Bell for this argument.

So, who would then be the RB that holds the Steeler record for most catches in a season and most receiving yards in a season??? Again, humor me.

Would it be Franco Harris?? Walter Abercrombie?? Frankie Pollard?? Tim Worley?? Merrill Hoge? Bam Morris?? Eric Pegram?? John L Williams?? How about Jerome Bettis?? Willie Parker?? Rashard Mendenhall?? Mewelde Moore?? Isaac Redman???

Nope, none of those RBs would own the record for catches and yards by a Steeler RB. So, who is that RB I wonder?? :roll:

Who could be that RB??

The answer of course is James Conner. In just his second NFL season he put up the 4th most catches and the 4th most yards by a Steeler RB. In my Thanos scenario where Bell and his records just disappear, James Conner's 55 catches and 497 yards would be #1.

How does all of this relate to Snell?? The Steelers are going to use Conner and Samuels in the passing game, both have lost weight to become slimmer, quicker. There was a need to have a hammer, a bigger back, to close, to finish games, in short yardage. Conner and Samuels may both be down to 215 pounds or less, while Snell may play closer to 230 pounds. Snell complements and completes what the Steelers plan to do with their RBs. He is not going to be a bell cow, he is not going to replace Conner as the starter.

That is how I see it.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:15 am 
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ironzabo wrote:
If you think for a second that Conner is THE MAN - why do you think Snell the bell cow that he is and was was selected and put into the mix.


I have ZERO love for the sPITT program and mind you I was a ball boy back in the day at Pitt Stadium. If you think for a second that impacts my take on Conner being an injury prone JAG then so be it.

He will never ever play a full 16 game season in the big boy league and Snell was taken at the slot he was for a reason - and rightfully so.

We all saw what my man Jay Sam did when given the opportunity last season. Come the F on boys.


Get your head out of your Yinzer rump when evaluating the skill set at play eh ?

Conner is a solid dude that fit the system and he flat out is not good enough on his own as he is a fumbler and soft. He might not see contract 2 as a result of his issues :shock:


Oboy Zabo...you've said something negative about one of the Sacred Fuckin' Cows of this esteemed website. Look the fuck out!! :lol: :lol:

You, like me, offering the full narrative on a kid that exceeded expectations, but it wasn't all positive...rarely is.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:19 am 
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Scunge wrote:
The reason why they drafted Snell, IMO, is because the Steelers have put both Samuels and Conner on the Leveon Bell diet plan. Both will come into the 2019 season, slimmer and quicker because they (the Steelers) want both to be dual threats at RB. They have talked about how they plan to use a two RB set where both are on the field. I can imagine them using Samuels more as a move TE, as an H-back, etc. Conner showed nice hands and the ability to tuck and run and get more yards after the catch. Ben talked about this, how he was so impressed about how Conner immediately got up the field after the catch. 55 catches for 497 yards and a 9.0 yards a catch average is pretty impressive.

How impressive was what Conner did catching the ball last season?? Some may look at what he did and say meh!!! Nothing special, what the hell are you talking about Scunge???

Here is a game, take Leveon Bell and eliminate him from the Steeler Record books for catches by a RB. Humor me. Take your fingers and do a Thanos snap and eliminate Bell for this argument.

So, who would then be the RB that holds the Steeler record for most catches in a season and most receiving yards in a season??? Again, humor me.

Would it be Franco Harris?? Walter Abercrombie?? Frankie Pollard?? Tim Worley?? Merrill Hoge? Bam Morris?? Eric Pegram?? John L Williams?? How about Jerome Bettis?? Willie Parker?? Rashard Mendenhall?? Mewelde Moore?? Isaac Redman???

Nope, none of those RBs would own the record for catches and yards by a Steeler RB. So, who is that RB I wonder?? :roll:

Who could be that RB??

The answer of course is James Conner. In just his second NFL season he put up the 4th most catches and the 4th most yards by a Steeler RB. In my Thanos scenario where Bell and his records just disappear, James Conner's 55 catches and 497 yards would be #1.

How does all of this relate to Snell?? The Steelers are going to use Conner and Samuels in the passing game, both have lost weight to become slimmer, quicker. There was a need to have a hammer, a bigger back, to close, to finish games, in short yardage. Conner and Samuels may both be down to 215 pounds or less, while Snell may play closer to 230 pounds. Snell complements and completes what the Steelers plan to do with their RBs. He is not going to be a bell cow, he is not going to replace Conner as the starter.

That is how I see it.


I'm not going full research mode, Scunge, but you had just cautioned us not to look too closely at Ben's NUMBER of picks, but rather his pick percentage as the Steelers were throwing the ball so fuckin' much. Yet...you don't offer that same analysis when it comes to Conner's NUMBER of catches, instead leading the reader to believe that he's the second best (next to...hmm hmm Leveon Bell) receiver at running back in Steeler history.

I'm not saying whether he is or he isn't, but the same analysis should be applied here.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:12 am 
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To call Conner injury prone is fair, I'm as concerned about his ability to stay off IR as I am about McDonald's, but a JAG? He looked a little better than that to me last year.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:17 am 
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Well, Swiss, I did look at all of these former Steeler RBs. Show me a RB (besides Bell) who was the starter and put up the production as a pass catcher that Conner did, in his second season to boot. I use 'virtual rookie' a lot when describing Conner last season because it is mostly true. He only played 68 snaps as a rookie in 2017.

He went from 68 offensive snaps as a rookie to 718 offensive snaps in 2018.

But again, his first season as a starter, and he puts up 55 catches for 497 yards, 9 yard avg and 1 TD. At many points of the season he had games where he was averaging over 10+ yards a catch. He had 5 catches over 20+ yards.

Previous to Bell and him establishing records for most catches and most yardage by a Steeler RB, those former records were set by Steeler Fullbacks. Merrill Hoge had 50 catches one season and then John L Williams set the mark of 51. And then you had scat backs, 3rd down backs like a Rodney Carter (yes, going way back to the late 80s), 38 catches, Mewled Moore who had 40 catches one season, Amos Zereoue had 42 catches one year as the 3rd down back. None of these 3rd down specialists were averaging 9 yards a catch, it was usually in the 7-8 yard range.

If you go by the starting RB, the main feature back, man, for a long time our feature back was just really, really below average in pass catching.

With Bettis it was common for him to have less than 20 catches in a season. He had 4 seasons where he was in the single digits for catches and his career high in a season was 22.

Tim Worely?? :lol:

Willie Parker? He really fought catching the ball, double clutch, most he had in a season was 31.

Franco? He had 36 catches one year for a career high and Barry Foster had the same 36 catches in his huge, 1992 season.

Yes, it was just his first season as a starter, but Conner came in and put up 55 catches in just 13 games. He put up 497 yards receiving in just 13 games. In 13 games Conner did more as a pass catcher than any other Steeler RB had minus Bell. The only other Steeler RB who came close to Conner was 32 year old DeAngelo Williams back in the 2015 season. He was the starter for 10 games that season and he had 40 catches for 367 yards and a 9.2 yard average.

If DWill had started all 16 games that season what might he have done? What might Conner have done had he not missed 3 games this past season. Both most likely would have been at or around 65-70 catches.

Again, to me you would have to say Bell is the best Steeler RB as a pass catcher, he has the team records, has set the standards. But, DWill showed that he was talented as a pass catcher and James Conner in just his second season showed that he was quite adept at it too. I do think that just like Brown, Bell was in a very friendly system that allowed him to set those records.

Bell is gone but that system remains, and again, if you plug in a sufficiently talented player, he will put up similar catches, production.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:23 am 
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My point, Scunge, is that if you're going to use number of attempts to defend Ben's number of interceptions, pointing the reader in the direction of interception percentage, the same caution should be offered with any receiver's number of receptions...and yes, that goes for Antonio Brown when looking at him in comparison to Swann/Stallworth.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:17 pm 
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So, we have a Pro Bowl starter who's coming off one of the best all around seasons in team history, an extremely capable utility back, capable of sharing snaps, and a hammer for short yardage, closing games and TD vulturing.

Yup, gonna miss Bell so much this year. No idea how this group could possibly fill his shoes. Oh, wait, we already did. Last season. Reason for positivity for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:07 pm 
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Ice wrote:
So, we have a Pro Bowl starter who's coming off one of the best all around seasons in team history, an extremely capable utility back, capable of sharing snaps, and a hammer for short yardage, closing games and TD vulturing.

Yup, gonna miss Bell so much this year. No idea how this group could possibly fill his shoes. Oh, wait, we already did. Last season. Reason for positivity for sure.


Fill his shoes?
They outright demolished his production

RB is probably the least troublesome spot on this roster

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:23 pm 
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Donnie Brasco wrote:
Ice wrote:
So, we have a Pro Bowl starter who's coming off one of the best all around seasons in team history, an extremely capable utility back, capable of sharing snaps, and a hammer for short yardage, closing games and TD vulturing.

Yup, gonna miss Bell so much this year. No idea how this group could possibly fill his shoes. Oh, wait, we already did. Last season. Reason for positivity for sure.


Fill his shoes?
They outright demolished his production

RB is probably the least troublesome spot on this roster



...and arguably fumbled away two wins in the process, but let's not tell the whole story.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Agree completely, Donnie. I'll add that after RB and OL, WR is right there as a position group that stresses me the least. We're going to end up cutting more than one potential producer there to get to 53.

And Switzer.


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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:49 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Ice wrote:
So, we have a Pro Bowl starter who's coming off one of the best all around seasons in team history, an extremely capable utility back, capable of sharing snaps, and a hammer for short yardage, closing games and TD vulturing.

Yup, gonna miss Bell so much this year. No idea how this group could possibly fill his shoes. Oh, wait, we already did. Last season. Reason for positivity for sure.


Fill his shoes?
They outright demolished his production

RB is probably the least troublesome spot on this roster



...and arguably fumbled away two wins in the process, but let's not tell the whole story.


You still on this non sequitor?
It's like some Sliding Doors bullshit

Maybe if Juju would've done an extra set of bicep curls in the offseason he wouldn't have fumbled vs NOLA
Maybe if AB would've taken his full set of meds he wouldn't have gone rogue
Maybe if Tomlin would remember to jerk off at halftime he'd make better adjustments

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:52 pm 
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Ha. Had him on mute for two days (if you haven't tried it, you really should) and I guessed his post content without having to look. Actually, that's not much of an accomplishment. Never mind.


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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:42 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Donnie Brasco wrote:
Ice wrote:
So, we have a Pro Bowl starter who's coming off one of the best all around seasons in team history, an extremely capable utility back, capable of sharing snaps, and a hammer for short yardage, closing games and TD vulturing.

Yup, gonna miss Bell so much this year. No idea how this group could possibly fill his shoes. Oh, wait, we already did. Last season. Reason for positivity for sure.


Fill his shoes?
They outright demolished his production

RB is probably the least troublesome spot on this roster



...and arguably fumbled away two wins in the process, but let's not tell the whole story.


Ben had 5 turnovers on opening day, Conner's first start of his entire career and you think he lost the game because of 1 fumble.

:lol:

Dude, I cannot wait to watch your IC-like reasons/excuses why the Steelers are much better than advertised this season!

Make sure you check them out in the playoffs without MC Hammer Jr.!

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:35 pm 
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To Donnie: Huh? What does anything you've said, other than the JuJu fumble, have to do with my comments on Conner??? You've moved the needle from Whataboutism to Whatthefuckism.

To KC: Been over this time and again, my friend. Steelers had overcome Ben's picks and had the game well in hand when Conner put the ball on the ground. Kid had a helluva year..but his fumble did cost the Steelers dearly. What "excuses/reasons" will have it Steelers have a helluva year?? You'll have been right; I'll have been wrong. That's all...and I sure as fuck hope that happens.

To Ice: Dullards like you don't merit a response, other than telling you you don't merit a response.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:44 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
To KC: Been over this time and again, my friend. Steelers had overcome Ben's picks and had the game well in hand when Conner put the ball on the ground.

So if Conner's fumble cost the Steelers that game, then what did Ben's fumble on 1st down at mid-field on the very next drive do?

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:52 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
What "excuses/reasons" will have it Steelers have a helluva year?? You'll have been right; I'll have been wrong.


You'll have plenty of excuses.

....and many reasons.

The first reason you're going to learn about that you've already dismissed many times?

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION.

You have never really acknowledged Dulac's report that MC Hammer Jr. QUIT ON HIS TEAM 3 SEPARATE TIMES DURING THE SEASON.

You don't believe Ben was forcing throws to MC Hammer Jr to keep him happy.

I think this season's gonna be a SERIOUS EYE OPENER for you.

I love ya Swiss. I'll never be as big a Steelers fan as you are, but you're about to have a come to Jesus moment in 2019!

GET READY!

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:57 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
To KC: Been over this time and again, my friend. Steelers had overcome Ben's picks and had the game well in hand when Conner put the ball on the ground.

So if Conner's fumble cost the Steelers that game, then what did Ben's fumble on 1st down at mid-field on the very next drive do?


Damn you Pabst, ;) I was just about ready to make the same comment! Besides Swiss, wasn’t there 7+ minutes left in the game and the Steelers up 14? Conner’s fumble only gave them 7 points, yet our O and the D, in particular, couldn’t close out the game - but yeah, all Connor’s fault. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:16 pm 
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KC wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
What "excuses/reasons" will have it Steelers have a helluva year?? You'll have been right; I'll have been wrong.


You'll have plenty of excuses.

....and many reasons.

The first reason you're going to learn about that you've already dismissed many times?

ADDITION BY SUBTRACTION.

You have never really acknowledged Dulac's report that MC Hammer Jr. QUIT ON HIS TEAM 3 SEPARATE TIMES DURING THE SEASON.

You don't believe Ben was forcing throws to MC Hammer Jr to keep him happy.

I think this season's gonna be a SERIOUS EYE OPENER for you.

I love ya Swiss. I'll never be as big a Steelers fan as you are, but you're about to have a come to Jesus moment in 2019!

GET READY!


I don't what you mean by excuses, KC. You mean I'll try to offer some bullshit reason?? I've been wrong about plenty of other predictions, just said I was wrong.

I've never disputed Dulac's report. What I do know is that Antonio Brown missed one game, so despite all the quitting, he still showed up on Sunday and produced. I'm not disputing he's an asshole...of which there are undoubtedly several on this team, just that he can throw all the shit off the balcony he wants to, drive in excess of 100mph around Pittsburgh every day of the week, but when he was still catching a 53 yard TD pass that night, no one had shit to say.

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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Ice wrote:
Not a WR or RB over 25, either. Young and deep. The defense has a ton of youth and potential, as well. Couple that with some fresh air at position coach, and some teachers of the game in the building, and we're really looking at an interesting team.


Yeah, young players with potential make it interesting.

I'm looking for the offense to be top 10 in Pts/Dr. Plenty of weapons for Ben behind a still strong OL.

If Bush turns out to be the drink stirrer we have been missing on defense... the defense will come alive.

Could be a fun season.


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 Post subject: Re: Some Positivity and a Fresh Mindset
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:55 pm 
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alancac98 wrote:
Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
To KC: Been over this time and again, my friend. Steelers had overcome Ben's picks and had the game well in hand when Conner put the ball on the ground.

So if Conner's fumble cost the Steelers that game, then what did Ben's fumble on 1st down at mid-field on the very next drive do?


Damn you Pabst, ;) I was just about ready to make the same comment! Besides Swiss, wasn’t there 7+ minutes left in the game and the Steelers up 14? Conner’s fumble only gave them 7 points, yet our O and the D, in particular, couldn’t close out the game - but yeah, all Connor’s fault. :roll:


Slight difference, after Ben's fumble, Clowns went backwards and punted the ball back to the Steelers.

Yes, Conner's fumble cost the Steelers the game. You know it, I know it, and know what? CONNER KNOWS IT!!

It's yes, delusional, to think otherwise!!

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