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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:06 pm 
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...and just like that it goes away once a competent attorney pushes back...as I predicted...

but the media and the sheriff's dept. told us in very serious tones, that it involved human trafficking...

why the hell were they willing to drop it if it involved some form of modern slavery?

so who are the real liars and crooks?

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 3:42 pm 
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What was this guys name again?


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:13 pm 
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are they making the same offer to all the guys arrested or just kraft


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:25 pm 
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passhappy wrote:
are they making the same offer to all the guys arrested or just kraft


All.

There is a condition that each needs to look at the evidence and formally admit that they would have been convicted in a trial (similar to a ‘no contest’).


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 4:36 pm 
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Orlaco wrote:
passhappy wrote:
are they making the same offer to all the guys arrested or just kraft


All.

There is a condition that each needs to look at the evidence and formally admit that they would have been convicted in a trial (similar to a ‘no contest’).


This is up there with some of the dumbest shit I have ever heard. If they were just run of the mill joe's they would all be going to court.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:14 am 
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Laying the Wood wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
If you read anything about sex workers, then you know the police liberally utilize the phrase trafficking so that it has become basically synonymous in policing with prostitution. Basically, when prostitution became something people started not caring about they reinvted the crime. The cops so they can get cash. They got some help from some anti-sex feminists (of course, there are some pro sex feminists). A slight twist on the old baptist and bootlegger alliance.

I


Wow.


Of course, I was 100% proven correct and LTW was proven wrong. No apology is forthcoming I’d bet. However, next time before you respond wow and go off the deep end about trafficking et al read a bit about the subject. My understanding allowed me to make the claim above which even the DA is now announcing is basically accurate.

Same goes for Cor-Ten.

https://deadspin.com/prosecutor-theres- ... 1834008710


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:02 pm 
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I can't speak for LTW, but do you have reading comprehension issues? I'd suggest re-reading the thread. Post a quote where I said I was 100% certain it was trafficking of underage girls simply because it was floated in the press. I did in fact state, though, that the reporting would be cleared up. And it was. But keep patting yourself on the back. It'll make you feel better.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
Laying the Wood wrote:
Zeke5123 wrote:
If you read anything about sex workers, then you know the police liberally utilize the phrase trafficking so that it has become basically synonymous in policing with prostitution. Basically, when prostitution became something people started not caring about they reinvted the crime. The cops so they can get cash. They got some help from some anti-sex feminists (of course, there are some pro sex feminists). A slight twist on the old baptist and bootlegger alliance.

I


Wow.


Of course, I was 100% proven correct and LTW was proven wrong. No apology is forthcoming I’d bet. However, next time before you respond wow and go off the deep end about trafficking et al read a bit about the subject. My understanding allowed me to make the claim above which even the DA is now announcing is basically accurate.

Same goes for Cor-Ten.

https://deadspin.com/prosecutor-theres- ... 1834008710


I was wrong on this, and it looks like you were right. I don't know that I agree 100% with you generally speaking, but you were right in this case.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Big man LTW. Maybe I was wrong about you.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:31 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
I can't speak for LTW, but do you have reading comprehension issues? I'd suggest re-reading the thread. Post a quote where I said I was 100% certain it was trafficking of underage girls simply because it was floated in the press. I did in fact state, though, that the reporting would be cleared up. And it was. But keep patting yourself on the back. It'll make you feel better.


You accused a poster of thinking sex acts with underage trafficked girls was okay. You said you didn’t think it was possible that Kraft was naive enough to know that when the girl doesn’t speak good English that it wasn’t trafficking. There were a few other posts where you caveated but did so in a way where you could post the above 100%.

When someone posts the things you posted in page three, they need to own up instead of fall back on tired debate tactics (ie I never said I was 100% sure so I wasn’t wrong but in the meantime I could castigate others).


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:46 pm 
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This whole sting is complete horseshit and is another stain on law enforcement.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 9:02 am 
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R S wrote:
I dunno. There is a lot of extrapolation going on in this thread. Every other week an Asian rub and tug is getting busted in most towns. Hell I remember as a kid an undercover cop busted a place in Altoona and actually got a BJ before making the arrests. It made it into Playboy magazine. Rub and tugs thrive at truck stops and in wealthy areas of DC.

Could this be simply a bust just like all the others?

My guess is yes. Even rich guys stop into these places over lunch for a massage. So the whole, he should be uusing high end escorts doesn't really hold water. He could do both.

The conspiracy theorists are funny. Most things are usually as they seem. Pretty simple.


I just stopped in to wag my finger and gloat also...

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:17 pm 
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So yes. You do in fact have reading comprehension issues. Or you're just more interested in proving someone you disagree with as being wrong. No matter how flimsy the data. I'll go with the later, but it's just as idiotic as the former.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:02 pm 
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COR-TEN wrote:
So yes. You do in fact have reading comprehension issues. Or you're just more interested in proving someone you disagree with as being wrong. No matter how flimsy the data. I'll go with the later, but it's just as idiotic as the former.


Let's see

Quote:
the-other-burg wrote:
I hate the pats. But sign me up for the camp of who the fuck cares.

Dude banged a hooker.. big fucking deal.

The moral outrage of modern society never ceases to amaze me.
So I guess you're ok with the trafficking part, or the underage girls?


Quote:
the-other-burg wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
the-other-burg wrote:
I hate the pats. But sign me up for the camp of who the fuck cares.

Dude banged a hooker.. big fucking deal.

The moral outrage of modern society never ceases to amaze me.
So I guess you're ok with the trafficking part, or the underage girls?


Holy fuck here comes the pc police....

Did i say I was ok with sex trafficking of underage girls? Jesus. Are you looking for an excuse to claim moral outrage?

Story says he went to a massage parlor and probably got a hand job. My comment was in regards to Kraft.
Ha. That's funny. Probably. Maybe. I guess it's still ok if he got a hand job from some asian girl that was trafficked for sex work. I mean, how was Kraft to know she was underage? Give the guy a break, will ya?


Quote:
the-other-burg wrote:
COR-TEN wrote:
Ha. That's funny. Probably. Maybe. I guess it's still ok if he got a hand job from some asian girl that was trafficked for sex work. I mean, how was Kraft to know she was underage? Give the guy a break, will ya?


You know what? If some old dude went to an asian massage parlor and got caught up in a sting, well that sucks for him. But these places have been around for a long time. And old dudes have been going to them for a long time. And I guess people dont think they are partaking in sex trafficking with these places- because in most cases they probably arent.

So we can all agree to be outraged over sex trafficking. But I will withold judgement before i call Kraft a supporter of it.

And slow you’re roll before you come out and accuse me of supporting it as well.
Fair enough. But I wasn't condoning bringing out the torches and pitchforks for Kraft. And slow your roll of accusing me of being the pc police. Whores have been around for a while. It's why they call it the oldest "profession." If Kraft simply got a hand job. Big deal. But it would be naive to think there isn't something else going on that he didn't know about. Like Jeff Epstien. And either way, it's a PR nightmare for him.


Bolded parts are Cor-Ten

First, some of your posts (see above) are without qualifers which commonly suggests that you were making a claim. So, first maybe calm down on the reading comp questions since uh...appears not to be your strong suit. After you were called out, you chicken shit retreated to saying that you said "if" though you never did. But said everything in a manner to suggest the "if" was merely perfunctory.

Second, my whole point (before there was any known evidence one way or the other) was that (i) since the press were relying on the police and (ii) the police routinely mischaracterize prostitution as trafficking, then (iii) it is reasonable to be doubtful of the published accounts because we know the source of said accounts are highly unreliable in this area. That basic logic allowed me to predict what actually occurred despite having the same evidence as you -- basic induction.

Retorting that you were just discussing what the media was discussing (in a rather uncritical way -- see the above quotes) means you didn't really understand the dynamic behind cops and trafficking. If a random source that was proven unreliable stated that Cor-ten was a pedo, and I started castigating posters for supporting Cor-ten and then afterwards half-heartedly qualified my claim that Cor-ten is a pedo with the word "if," it would be fair to expect an apology when Cor-ten was proven not to be a pedo. Same point here.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:09 pm 
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I hope someone wins this internet battle before my popcorn runs out

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:11 pm 
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Believing obviously bullshit law enforcement statements at face value is not an excuse, especially from someone who claims to be liberal.

Law enforcement initially claimed it was human trafficking, then told us in righteous tones that they then proceeded to film the slaves for the next few months to gather evidence.

Anyone with basic common sense can identify the problem here, as a few of us did at the beginning.

This is not only a lie by law enforcement, it's a Fredo Corleone lie. Doubly insulting because they think you are stupid enough to believe it.

But some holier than thou non-thinking types here decided to pile on and smear the skeptics with the charge of being supportive of child molestation, even though no one ever presented evidence of underage sex trafficking.

Now we have spa clients including women who didn't have an erotic massage suing for privacy violations.

So it wasn't actually obvious at all that this was a rub and tug place or a front for human trafficking.

As some of us said.

And now law enforcement, says, oh never mind, there was never any sex trafficking.

So please tell me why law enforcement are not the real criminals here?

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 2:22 pm 
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[quote="Dan Smith--BYU"]Believing obviously bullshit law enforcement statements at face value is not an excuse, especially from someone who claims to be liberal./quote]

You ever read anything by Don Hoffman? He claims that fitness is distinct from truth and natural selection only selects for fitness. So we have evolved for fitness, not grasping anything about the true nature of reality. 8-)

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:02 pm 
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I haven't read the man but it makes perfect sense.

If you're in Salem during the witch hunt, joining the hysterical mob makes more sense from an evolutionary psychology standpoint and survival standpoint than being objective.

Which is why due process and rules of evidence is such genius. Human nature and the herd instinct must be checked.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 6:51 pm 
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BTW, I'm extremely skeptical about the arrest of Assange. The media keeps asserting collusion with Russia and he's not being charged with that. What he actually did is the same thing the New York Times did with the Pentagon Papers which is completely legal. If printing leaked information is illegal, shut down the Times and the Post right now.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:27 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
I haven't read the man but it makes perfect sense.

If you're in Salem during the witch hunt, joining the hysterical mob makes more sense from an evolutionary psychology standpoint and survival standpoint than being objective.

Which is why due process and rules of evidence is such genius. Human nature and the herd instinct must be checked.


Do you have a time and date for the witch hunt?

Dinner, movies and a walk is monotonous....

Looking for something different

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:47 pm 
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Dan Smith--BYU wrote:
BTW, I'm extremely skeptical about the arrest of Assange. The media keeps asserting collusion with Russia and he's not being charged with that. What he actually did is the same thing the New York Times did with the Pentagon Papers which is completely legal. If printing leaked information is illegal, shut down the Times and the Post right now.


If the shoe was on the other foot he’d be viewed as a hero.

Kinda like Mueller was until all of a sudden he wasn’t.


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:29 pm 
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Oh, are we allowed to talk politics now, B2B?

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:39 pm 
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Sort of like Assange was a security issue until it suited that he wasn’t.
There is a difference between posting/printing stolen classified information or personal data, soliciting stolen classified information or personal data and participating in the theft of personal data or classified information.

The current debate is purposely obfuscated and populated by a million straw men and intentionally false arguments

Sound familiar


Last edited by Gonzo on Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:46 am 
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This has lingered on main page for a while now. Better to just move to general...


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 Post subject: Re: Robert Kraft busted in human trafficking prostitution st
PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:41 pm 
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Gonzo wrote:
Sort of like Assange was a security issue until it suited that he wasn’t.


Point of clarification - he's been charged with aiding Manning in the theft and transmission of the data. It is not a crime for the press to publish stolen information. It IS a crime if the reporter conspires to steal data (and "conspire" is a word that is going to be mentioned 10,000X tomorrow morning).


Also, I will admit to being suckered on this story. We all really should be more skeptical of everything we see in the news these days. I put a lot of confidence in what the police said, not knowing how liberally and loosely "trafficking" was being used. It just didn't make any sense (still doesn't, honestly) to me why someone of Kraft's profile and wealth would ever risk getting caught in a rub-n-tug joint.

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