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 Post subject: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2018 7:50 pm 
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“That's good for our defense.” https://triblive.com/sports/-topstories ... -secondary
A nice piece from the trib on Sutton.

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“I've been moving around a little bit, and it's giving me a lot of opportunity,” Sutton said. “I'm trying to expand and keep building on what I learned last year. The more opportunities and reps I get, I can capitalize on them and make plays on the ball. That's what it comes down to.” (same article)

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 12:22 pm 
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I like having a lot of packages and a wide range of personnel. But if the emphasis isnt on tackling and defensive backfield communication- it will all just be window dressing. The league is going to see a lot more RPO because of the Eagles (its an imitation league)- lets hope that this is their way of combating that.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 10:22 pm 
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Yeah but defense does win you the game. Just like that of offense scores you the points.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:11 am 
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STOPPING THE RUN IS JOB ONE:
RUN TO THE BALL:
MIX UP THE PASS RUSH:
GET PRESSURE WITH FOUR WHENEVER POSSIBLE:
GET SACKS FROM EVERYWHERE:
WORK IN CONCERT:
NO BIG PLAYS ALLOWED:
TAKE AWAY THE BEST RECEIVER:
SAFETY FIRST:

https://www.steelers.com/news/man-with-a-plan
Preaching to the choir coach. Thought this was the plan all along. Now is the "talent" on the roster enough?

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:54 am 
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I liked Sutton's game more than Artie's game last year. When Haden went down, I thought Sutton stepped in and outplayed everyone else (aside from Hilton), yet they continued to pull him off the field and put sensabaugh in. Him and Hilton were our two best tacklers as well.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:24 am 
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Steelafan77 wrote:
SAFETY FIRST:


So why is it listed last then?

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:56 am 
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STOPPING THE RUN IS JOB ONE: 18th vs rush.
RUN TO THE BALL:
MIX UP THE PASS RUSH: 4-man rush: 60.9 (20th most-5th most pressures-4th most effective), 5 or more: (22.5% (19-3-10), 3 man rush: 16.6% (4-9-18), DB blitz 14.8% (2-28-13)
GET PRESSURE WITH FOUR WHENEVER POSSIBLE: 4-man rush: 5th most pressures-4th best DVOA
GET SACKS FROM EVERYWHERE: DEs 21, OLBs 17, ILBs 10, DBs 6
WORK IN CONCERT:
NO BIG PLAYS ALLOWED: passing: 16th most 20+, 3rd most 40+; rushing: 16th most 20+, 4th most 40+
TAKE AWAY THE BEST RECEIVER: 17th in the NFL vs #1WR
SAFETY FIRST: Ditched 3 of them since the end of the season, brought in 3

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 11:58 am 
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STOPPING THE RUN IS JOB ONE

NO!

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:08 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
STOPPING THE RUN IS JOB ONE: 18th vs rush.
RUN TO THE BALL:
MIX UP THE PASS RUSH: 4-man rush: 60.9 (20th most-5th most pressures-4th most effective), 5 or more: (22.5% (19-3-10), 3 man rush: 16.6% (4-9-18), DB blitz 14.8% (2-28-13)
GET PRESSURE WITH FOUR WHENEVER POSSIBLE: 4-man rush: 5th most pressures-4th best DVOA
GET SACKS FROM EVERYWHERE: DEs 21, OLBs 17, ILBs 10, DBs 6
WORK IN CONCERT:
NO BIG PLAYS ALLOWED: passing: 16th most 20+, 3rd most 40+; rushing: 16th most 20+, 4th most 40+
TAKE AWAY THE BEST RECEIVER: 17th in the NFL vs #1WR
SAFETY FIRST: Ditched 3 of them since the end of the season, brought in 3

Looks like you're telling me Yes! Yes there is enough talent in the right places to carry out this plan. So my [two part] question becomes... Can they put it all together excelling at generating turnovers and/or getting off the field on 3rd Downs? That's my $64,000.00 question(s).

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Nothing wrong with the pass rush or pass rush strategy... they were excellent last year, even with Dupree, Hargrave, & Tuitt apparently playing at less than 100% health. I'm excited to see Keion Adams added to the mix, and the addition of Joshua Frazier covers for the risk of Hargrave not playing up to his best of 2016.

I thought safety play the past two years was a huge problem... apparently, they agreed, and they did something about it.

They struggled to stop the run because:
A. missed tackles
B. failure to address ILB roster depth in august/september
C. three players in starting front 7 were playing with back or upper body injuries
D. Artie Burns

I hope C. will be better with health. A should be improved, simply because most of the personnel has improved. B. is still unaddressed unless Morgan Burnett or one of the other safeties is going to play ILB in nickel.

Giving up an inordinate number of over 40 yard plays is a huge problem that will likely revert to the mean... but I am sure hoping for some competition for Artie Burns.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 9:49 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Nothing wrong with the pass rush or pass rush strategy... they were excellent last year, even with Dupree, Hargrave, & Tuitt apparently playing at less than 100% health. I'm excited to see Keion Adams added to the mix, and the addition of Joshua Frazier covers for the risk of Hargrave not playing up to his best of 2016.

I thought safety play the past two years was a huge problem... apparently, they agreed, and they did something about it.

They struggled to stop the run because:
A. missed tackles
B. failure to address ILB roster depth in august/september
C. three players in starting front 7 were playing with back or upper body injuries
D. Artie Burns

I hope C. will be better with health. A should be improved, simply because most of the personnel has improved. B. is still unaddressed unless Morgan Burnett or one of the other safeties is going to play ILB in nickel.

Giving up an inordinate number of over 40 yard plays is a huge problem that will likely revert to the mean... but I am sure hoping for some competition for Artie Burns.


F. Failure to hold Edge with OLBs ( some of that had to do with depth)
G. Did anyone mention poor play by the ILB ( including Shazier).

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:03 am 
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jebrick wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Nothing wrong with the pass rush or pass rush strategy... they were excellent last year, even with Dupree, Hargrave, & Tuitt apparently playing at less than 100% health. I'm excited to see Keion Adams added to the mix, and the addition of Joshua Frazier covers for the risk of Hargrave not playing up to his best of 2016.

I thought safety play the past two years was a huge problem... apparently, they agreed, and they did something about it.

They struggled to stop the run because:
A. missed tackles
B. failure to address ILB roster depth in august/september
C. three players in starting front 7 were playing with back or upper body injuries
D. Artie Burns

I hope C. will be better with health. A should be improved, simply because most of the personnel has improved. B. is still unaddressed unless Morgan Burnett or one of the other safeties is going to play ILB in nickel.

Giving up an inordinate number of over 40 yard plays is a huge problem that will likely revert to the mean... but I am sure hoping for some competition for Artie Burns.


F. Failure to hold Edge with OLBs ( some of that had to do with depth)
G. Did anyone mention poor play by the ILB ( including Shazier).

Dupree will be better at his run responsibilities on the right side... more chasing from behind than 2-gapping. Watt will be a good rusher from teh left side, but run fits are goign to be all kinds of fun. My guess is that we're slowly becoming more of a 4-3 stop the run on the way to the passer team... have to have agile, athletic ILB(s) to run and chase. Or Safeties, I guess.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:49 am 
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I remember the last time Tomlin talked about versatility.....it seems that was forgettable.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:32 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
I remember the last time Tomlin talked about versatility.....it seems that was forgettable.

Yeah, but that was all about the OL, something which Tomlin, as a coach and a player, knew (knows) very little about...

...his OC at the time offered almost no help in that regard, too...

One would hope it's a different story on the defensive side of the ball...
I mean, he IS a former DC with an impressive pre-Steelers resume, but that was a dozen years ago, so we shall see...

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:03 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I remember the last time Tomlin talked about versatility.....it seems that was forgettable.

Yeah, but that was all about the OL, something which Tomlin, as a coach and a player, knew (knows) very little about...

...his OC at the time offered almost no help in that regard, too...

One would hope it's a different story on the defensive side of the ball...
I mean, he IS a former DC with an impressive pre-Steelers resume, but that was a dozen years ago, so we shall see...


Mike Tomlin's coaching resume pre steelers is very thin.

A whopping 1 year as Vikings DC which was nothing to get excited about as far as I can tell.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:36 pm 
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Havoc wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I remember the last time Tomlin talked about versatility.....it seems that was forgettable.

Yeah, but that was all about the OL, something which Tomlin, as a coach and a player, knew (knows) very little about...

...his OC at the time offered almost no help in that regard, too...

One would hope it's a different story on the defensive side of the ball...
I mean, he IS a former DC with an impressive pre-Steelers resume, but that was a dozen years ago, so we shall see...


Mike Tomlin's coaching resume pre steelers is very thin.

A whopping 1 year as Vikings DC which was nothing to get excited about as far as I can tell.

Oh, I'm completely with you!

...but there are a TON of Tomlin apologists on "board" for this ride...

it's just about knowing the audience... ;)

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:42 pm 
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Steeledge wrote:
Havoc wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
Yeah, but that was all about the OL, something which Tomlin, as a coach and a player, knew (knows) very little about...

...his OC at the time offered almost no help in that regard, too...

One would hope it's a different story on the defensive side of the ball...
I mean, he IS a former DC with an impressive pre-Steelers resume, but that was a dozen years ago, so we shall see...


Mike Tomlin's coaching resume pre steelers is very thin.

A whopping 1 year as Vikings DC which was nothing to get excited about as far as I can tell.

Oh, I'm completely with you!

...but there are a TON of Tomlin apologists on "board" for this ride...

it's just about knowing the audience... ;)

Ehhh...I wouldn’t say a ton. Just a very loud minority, including a handful that will come charging in on their white stallion to defend his honor at the slightest hint of criticism. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 2:25 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
Havoc wrote:
Mike Tomlin's coaching resume pre steelers is very thin.

A whopping 1 year as Vikings DC which was nothing to get excited about as far as I can tell.

Oh, I'm completely with you!

...but there are a TON of Tomlin apologists on "board" for this ride...

it's just about knowing the audience... ;)

Ehhh...I wouldn’t say a ton. Just a very loud minority, including a handful that will come charging in on their white stallion to defend his honor at the slightest hint of criticism. :lol:

It's the close ties that this "un-silent minority" have with the folks that run this website that I'm concerning myself with...

...and did you seriously use the term "white" stallion?!

:o



;)

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:09 pm 
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:oops:

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:10 am 
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Havoc wrote:
Steeledge wrote:
Kodiak wrote:
I remember the last time Tomlin talked about versatility.....it seems that was forgettable.

Yeah, but that was all about the OL, something which Tomlin, as a coach and a player, knew (knows) very little about...

...his OC at the time offered almost no help in that regard, too...

One would hope it's a different story on the defensive side of the ball...
I mean, he IS a former DC with an impressive pre-Steelers resume, but that was a dozen years ago, so we shall see...


Mike Tomlin's coaching resume pre steelers is very thin.

A whopping 1 year as Vikings DC which was nothing to get excited about as far as I can tell.


He has more football experience as an offensive guy since he played WR growing up (at least in college so I assume he did so in HS and maybe before hand) then a couple of years as a secondary coach with Tampa and 1 season as a DC in Minn. He should really be more of an offensive mind than a defensive mind. NFL is weird like that though. Brian Billick is a prime example his being hired in Baltimore was due to his O putting up insane #'s in Minn and then in Baltimore the D carried the team his entire tenure.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:12 am 
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Colin Cowherd, who regularly skewers Tomlin, has a much more sober perspective than most of the harshest Tomlin critics on this board.

I think this take is spot on:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAlkbRz1SUs&t=

Sure, fire Tomlin, but be prepared for the coach that replaces him to be worse. That is the overwhelming likelihood in my opinion. Just be thankful you're not a Saints fan or a Packers fan. You'd be even more pissed off.

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We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:51 am 
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stillthere wrote:
Havoc wrote:
Mike Tomlin's coaching resume pre steelers is very thin.

A whopping 1 year as Vikings DC which was nothing to get excited about as far as I can tell.


He has more football experience as an offensive guy since he played WR growing up (at least in college so I assume he did so in HS and maybe before hand) then a couple of years as a secondary coach with Tampa and 1 season as a DC in Minn. He should really be more of an offensive mind than a defensive mind. NFL is weird like that though. Brian Billick is a prime example his being hired in Baltimore was due to his O putting up insane #'s in Minn and then in Baltimore the D carried the team his entire tenure.


Yeah, I was just giving the highlight(s) which in this case totaled 1 season.

We got rid of Haley, so I'm hoping for the best with Tomlin moving forward. This is going to be a very very interesting season for so many reasons. Can't wait to see it all play out.

It strikes me as odd that a former wr seems so set on the idea of needing a bell cow rb in today's nfl (with a HOF qb and HOF wr on the roster). But then again, we did draft Samuels.. so maybe this is a sign our FO including Tomlin is adapting to a changing league? Maybe I will think differently of Tomlin after this season. Like I said, hoping for the best. We will see.


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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:30 am 
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Still Lit wrote:
Just be thankful you're not a Saints fan or a Packers fan. You'd be even more pissed off.

Meh, I don't recall Sean Payton or Mike McCarthy stepping on the field to thwart a hated rival's kickoff return at a crucial moment, forcing their entire franchise to have to live down that humiliation (just one example off the top of my head), but whatevs...

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:46 am 
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See, I don't agree with Cowherd.

I think most coaches are pretty average, some are better Mon-Sat and some are better on Sun, but they're mostly competent at the job. They tend to be risk averse and stick to convention and popular wisdom (i.e. mediocre). Tomlin is one of those guys.

Sure, the bad coaches outnumber the truly good coaches, but 80% of them are probably just average...and I don't think PIT would hire a bad coach. I really see nothing but upside to replacing Tomlin.

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 Post subject: Re: We have a lot of versatile guys
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:55 am 
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Steeledge wrote:
Still Lit wrote:
Just be thankful you're not a Saints fan or a Packers fan. You'd be even more pissed off.

Meh, I don't recall Sean Payton or Mike McCarthy stepping on the field to thwart a hated rival's kickoff return at a crucial moment, forcing their entire franchise to have to live down that humiliation (just one example off the top of my head), but whatevs...


They have Rodgers and Brees and worse records. But whatevs.

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Orangesteel wrote:
We could have ended the game there and Tomlin’s band of assholes let them back in.


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