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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:34 am 
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Kodiak wrote:
Also, if Bell is tagged this year (for the 2nd time) it's 20% more, for a total of @ $14.5M

Non-QB's cannot be tagged for a 3rd year. He's guaranteed to be a UFA after next year if he doesn't sign an extension.


Kodiak where is your source on this statement? I have read nothing to this effect. There is actually arguments about using it a fourth time on Cousins. I have seen no language about the tag having a position segmentation. The tag is tag and the QB comes into play in the language often only because they on the whole have the biggest contract.

Per Reddit source :) :

First year franchise tag:

120% of the previous year's salary, or average of the top 5 salaries of everyone else playing that position, whichever is higher. The "average" is actually a percentage of the cap. It's calculated as follows: Take the franchise tag amounts for the position for each of the previous 5 years, add them all up. Divide them by the sum of the salary cap totals for each of the previous 5 years. Multiply that by the salary cap for this year. So if the five previous franchise amounts were $10M, $11M, $12M, $13M, $14M and the salary caps were $100M, $105M, $110M, $120M, $130M, and this year's salary cap is $140M, it'd be (10+11+12+13+14)/(100+105+110+120+130) = 10.69% of $140M, or $14.86M.
Second year of the franchise tag:

Same thing. Unless the math gets really weird, the 120% increase is likely to be the higher amount.
Third year of the franchise tag:

An average of the top 5 salaries at the highest paid position (likely QB). So if a WR's tag amount is $12M, but a QB's tag amount is $20M, a WR tagged a 3rd time will get the $20M. OR 120% of the average of the 5 largest prior year salaries at his position (so 120% of the 5 biggest WR contracts from the year before, in this case). OR 144% of the player's previous year's salary. Whichever is highest.
There's nothing in the CBA saying they can't be tagged a 4th time. I would assume a 4th year would have the same rules as a 3rd, which means the cost at that point would be pretty outrageous.

Also, of minor note: The player can choose to take the 120/144% increase over the average of the salaries if he wants, even if the 120/144% increase is the lower amount. Why he would take less money I don't know, but it's an option for him. The team is required to offer the higher of the two, but the player can opt to take the lower amount.



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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:56 am 
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They'll work it out, this is a non-issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Only because it is a great portion/clause of the CBA that put players and owners over the barrel. If we had the baseball free agency model, Bell would be in the Big Apple.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:53 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Kodiak where is your source on this statement?


LMAO
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... chise-tag/

That's the first article in the google search. The next one:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... tag-limit/


LOL, I guess there's no limit to the number of tags. But the Steelers will never tag Bell a 3rd time for $20M.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Not an easy topic to Google and get a difinitive answer. That means the lawyers have done there job with CBA for both sides I guess.

As you said, no chance in hell they will tag him a 3rd time, and no chance in hell he sits!

Both sides have leverage and it should be a perfect year for a long term deal.

Why do you need an agent if you are Bell in 2018? I’d fire my agent today, take the tag, get a 20% raise plus an additional agent free bonus of 6-10% I would guess, and then rehire an agent in 2019 when the real work will be done. Either do the LT contract or fire your agent.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:25 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Not an easy topic to Google and get a difinitive answer. That means the lawyers have done there job with CBA for both sides I guess.

As you said, no chance in hell they will tag him a 3rd time, and no chance in hell he sits!

Both sides have leverage and it should be a perfect year for a long term deal.

Why do you need an agent if you are Bell in 2018? I’d fire my agent today, take the tag, get a 20% raise plus an additional agent free bonus of 6-10% I would guess, and then rehire an agent in 2019 when the real work will be done. Either do the LT contract or fire your agent.


My guess is that if the Steelers tag him, Bell will ask permission to seek a trade. That's where an agent comes into play. However, if Bell is content to play another season under the tag. He should take some of the agent fee and apply it to injury insurance and pocket the rest. Then, try to get a 25m guaranteed once he hits FA + 10m in first two years.


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:07 pm 
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LakecrestSteeler wrote:
Not an easy topic to Google and get a difinitive answer. That means the lawyers have done there job with CBA for both sides I guess.


I thought I've read multiple places about the 2 and 3 tag deal. But that second PFW article seemed pretty definitive that there's no such explicit language in the CBA.

As the articles mentioned, it's hard to imagine anyone getting a 4th tag (or a 3rd on a non-QB). And would such a player REALLY be upset about 2.5X the franchise tag?


I can't know how I'd react or think in Bell's situation, but IMO most players have a very irrational fear of a career-ending injury (yeah, I know, Shazier). It's something so rare that you could and should get relatively cheap insurance for it. Otherwise, tag me 2 or 3 times and then I'm a FA and I'm laughing all the way to the bank. Every star should go that route. But if you start talking extension a year or two earlier, then that changes the calculus quite a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:08 pm 
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Zeke5123 wrote:
If he doesn’t care about money, why would he sit out over money? Also, BS someone would turn down a 14m payday when they care bout money; that’s crazy. Threating to sit out is only leverage.

no lie..oh no; they made me play for 14+ mill...im so mad... :lol:
that's 14 million u can never get back..another year in your prime u cant replay.. no way he passes on that..im not sure what bells value is..lets win the bowl and then see..


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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Sorry, but I am able to take off the homer glasses with Bell and say that his receiving prowess are over-rated.

The offense this year did not take off because we were throwing to Bell more all of a sudden. No, the offense took off because of the ascension of one JuJu Smith-Schuster. You take him out of this offense and I don't know what you would have had this season, it would have been a train wreck.

Bell's 7.7 yards per carry is actually pretty dismal when you compare it to the other top RBs that catch the ball. He also does not help move the chains as much as some of you may think.

106 targets, 31 first downs. That is a 29% first down rate on targets. David Johnson last season for Arizona had a 35% first down rate on his targets, Alvin Kamara this season, as a rookie, had a 38% first down rate on his targets in the passing game. But those two RBs averaged over 10 yards a catch, have the breakaway speed to score more TDs, are more dangerous as receivers. Bell claims to be this great catcher as a RB, like a 2nd WR out there but he is flat out wrong.

As I said, if you are a defense you want the Steelers to target Bell more in the passing game and give less targets to somebody like JuJu.

I mean JuJu, he was targeted 79 times and produced 39 first downs, that 49% first down rate on targets was better than Antonio Brown's 43% rate.

Bell could have 10 catches for 80 yards in a game but it is amazing to me the additional yards and first downs that don't happen because of his lack of speed. I see a nice 8 yard catch that might have been 25 yards with Kamara or Johnson, I see a very good 25 yard catch and run by Bell that might have been a 50 yard TD catch and run by Kamara and Johnson.

If JuJu does not have a big game against Jax I think we lose this game, regardless of what Bell or Brown do.

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 Post subject: Re: Latest Drama Angle - Bell @ next year
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:53 pm 
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Scunge wrote:
Sorry, but I am able to take off the homer glasses with Bell and say that his receiving prowess are over-rated.

The offense this year did not take off because we were throwing to Bell more all of a sudden. No, the offense took off because of the ascension of one JuJu Smith-Schuster. You take him out of this offense and I don't know what you would have had this season, it would have been a train wreck.

Bell's 7.7 yards per carry is actually pretty dismal when you compare it to the other top RBs that catch the ball. He also does not help move the chains as much as some of you may think.

106 targets, 31 first downs. That is a 29% first down rate on targets. David Johnson last season for Arizona had a 35% first down rate on his targets, Alvin Kamara this season, as a rookie, had a 38% first down rate on his targets in the passing game. But those two RBs averaged over 10 yards a catch, have the breakaway speed to score more TDs, are more dangerous as receivers. Bell claims to be this great catcher as a RB, like a 2nd WR out there but he is flat out wrong.

As I said, if you are a defense you want the Steelers to target Bell more in the passing game and give less targets to somebody like JuJu.

I mean JuJu, he was targeted 79 times and produced 39 first downs, that 49% first down rate on targets was better than Antonio Brown's 43% rate.

Bell could have 10 catches for 80 yards in a game but it is amazing to me the additional yards and first downs that don't happen because of his lack of speed. I see a nice 8 yard catch that might have been 25 yards with Kamara or Johnson, I see a very good 25 yard catch and run by Bell that might have been a 50 yard TD catch and run by Kamara and Johnson.

If JuJu does not have a big game against Jax I think we lose this game, regardless of what Bell or Brown do.




You're not totally wrong on Bell, hes a great back but you are correct in that he leaves yards on the field withnhis lack of that extra gear, he does though create yards where there appear to be none on many occasions. As far as your call Scunge that we need a big game from JuJu to win, i agree. in fact i called big games out Juju AND MacDonald, i think both those guys are gonna be huge for us as well as a big deal from Bell as far as total yards from scrimmage.


Last edited by GreekSteel on Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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