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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:38 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Try this again....

*Yes, the ability to beat this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, on their home field, more than once, says alot.

*The ability to play this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, very, very tough, on their home field, even in losing efforts, says alot.

*Comparing the record of the coach referenced above, to the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who consistently gets his ass kicked in similar circumstances, says alot.

*And lastly, once again, observing these two guys over nearly the identical period of time, seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

So, in the end, it isn't JUST Harbaugh's ability to beat Belichick, but his ability to play him tough, and his general qualities as a coach compared to Tomlin that inform my opinion.


You've itemized 4 points. Three of them are basically the same. Beat Belichick or some version on that theme. Not debateable other than player talent and scheme, which is a huge factor. Don't forget, Tomlin has shown he can beat Belichick and Brady. Now, why he hasn't used that game plan since, only he can answer. But, to say he doesn't have the ability or isn't capable is flat our wrong.

As for your 4th point, that's perception and debatable. But, let's just say that's true. What has attention to detail and game management gotten Harbaugh over Tomlin? A miracle SB run? Tomlin went to 2. Harbaugh hasn't built a championship roster. He inherited a world class defense and did kittle with it minus that one miracle run. He only beat Pit once they were old and slow and did minimal against the rest of the league with it.

Additionally, Tomlin has shown an ability to build a championship roster all his own. Harbaugh hasn't shown that ability, yet..

So, back you your original thought. You prefer Harbaugh. Fair enough. Your prerogative. However, it isn't by any means a definitive choice nor obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:01 am 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Try this again....

*Yes, the ability to beat this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, on their home field, more than once, says alot.

*The ability to play this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, very, very tough, on their home field, even in losing efforts, says alot.

*Comparing the record of the coach referenced above, to the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who consistently gets his ass kicked in similar circumstances, says alot.

*And lastly, once again, observing these two guys over nearly the identical period of time, seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

So, in the end, it isn't JUST Harbaugh's ability to beat Belichick, but his ability to play him tough, and his general qualities as a coach compared to Tomlin that inform my opinion.


You've itemized 4 points. Three of them are basically the same. Beat Belichick or some version on that theme. Not debateable other than player talent and scheme, which is a huge factor. Don't forget, Tomlin has shown he can beat Belichick and Brady. Now, why he hasn't used that game plan since, only he can answer. But, to say he doesn't have the ability or isn't capable is flat our wrong.

As for your 4th point, that's perception and debatable. But, let's just say that's true. What has attention to detail and game management gotten Harbaugh over Tomlin? A miracle SB run? Tomlin went to 2. Harbaugh hasn't built a championship roster. He inherited a world class defense and did kittle with it minus that one miracle run. He only beat Pit once they were old and slow and did minimal against the rest of the league with it.

Additionally, Tomlin has shown an ability to build a championship roster all his own. Harbaugh hasn't shown that ability, yet..

So, back you your original thought. You prefer Harbaugh. Fair enough. Your prerogative. However, it isn't by any means a definitive choice nor obvious.


Never said it was obvious or definitive. This started back on page 3 of this OP, when someone mentioned some of us once having said we preferred Harbaugh and my stating that I still prefer Harbaugh. Yes, it's my prerogative. I think Harbaugh's the better coach based on the arguments I've made. You can discount his record against Belichick all you want...both playoff and regular season. I don't get, after last year's AFCCG, and the ass-whippin' the Patriots laid on the Steelers, how that record can be discounted so easily.

Patriots are the current 800-pound guerrilla of the NFL. Harbaugh has shown an ability to beat the Patriots in big spots. Tomlin has shown the ability to be beaten like a fuckin' drum. Sorry, I think that's goddamn important.

And yes...certainly my opinion, nothing more.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:57 am 
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The thing that weighs most in Harbaugh's favor is that he's had to do it with Flacco at QB vs Tomlin having a HOF QB in Ben.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:36 am 
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franco32 wrote:
The thing that weighs most in Harbaugh's favor is that he's had to do it with Flacco at QB vs Tomlin having a HOF QB in Ben.


But what exactly has he done better or more of than Tomlin? Less overall wins, less SB trips. He’s done less than Tomlin, comparatively, with a lesser QB. Why is that a ding against Tomlin?

And now that his roster is turning over, the ravens are even less relevant than when the Steelers were turning over theirs.

Look, believe me, I’m frustrated as fuck with Tomlin, especially after last year. But, to me, Harbaugh hasn’t done anything exceptional to warrant me wanting him over Tomlin. Then, when you include the “Harbaugh Douche” factor, it’s an hell no for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:30 am 
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Just for the record...
Harbaugh vs Belichick...3-5 career
Tomlin vs Belichick...2-6 career
FWIW

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:07 pm 
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Jobus Rum wrote:
Just for the record...
Harbaugh vs Belichick...3-5 career
Tomlin vs Belichick...2-6 career
FWIW




Very little


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 2:01 pm 
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I can see preferring Harbaugh over Tomlin, though the argument seems to be trending in Tomlins way right now as the Steelers appear to be coming through their post SB rebuild in much better shape than the Ravens.

You could also easily conclude that the two are top 5 coaches in the league. They are certainly both top ten.

A couple other things pulled from this thread
- It absolutely has mattered that the Pats have been playing in a weaker division than the Steelers over the Brady/Ben careers. Some of you are arguing that a) Harbaugh is successful against the Pats and b) it doesn't matter that the Pats don't have a strong team like the Ravens in their division. Can't have it both ways.
- Brady and Ben are both elite quarterbacks. But there are levels here too. Not taking away from Ben, but Brady is the GOAT. It's like comparing Jerry Rice and Hines Ward. Both HOF (or will be). But there is a major difference.
- Oh and I almost forgot. Harbaugh is a world class douche. I wouldn't want him as the Steelers coach.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 3:55 pm 
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Lifelongsteel wrote:
I can see preferring Harbaugh over Tomlin, though the argument seems to be trending in Tomlins way right now as the Steelers appear to be coming through their post SB rebuild in much better shape than the Ravens.

You could also easily conclude that the two are top 5 coaches in the league. They are certainly both top ten.

A couple other things pulled from this thread
- It absolutely has mattered that the Pats have been playing in a weaker division than the Steelers over the Brady/Ben careers. Some of you are arguing that a) Harbaugh is successful against the Pats and b) it doesn't matter that the Pats don't have a strong team like the Ravens in their division. Can't have it both ways.
- Brady and Ben are both elite quarterbacks. But there are levels here too. Not taking away from Ben, but Brady is the GOAT. It's like comparing Jerry Rice and Hines Ward. Both HOF (or will be). But there is a major difference.
- Oh and I almost forgot. Harbaugh is a world class douche. I wouldn't want him as the Steelers coach.


Good to hear from you, Lifelong....haven't seen your posts in awhile.

As for Harbaugh being a douche....it's relevant as far as who as fans would like to have coaching our team (that said, regardless of Bill Belichck being a douche, cheater, asshole, smug fuck.....I would him coach my team in a heartbeat), but really can't factor douchness into one's effectiveness as a Coach. Also, from what I understand, doesn't seem as though Harbaugh's players think he's a douche.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Read the comments and tell me if any of this sounds familiar: https://www.baltimorebeatdown.com/2017/10/22/16517396/john-harbaugh-lost-the-ravens-locker-room-vikings-week-seven-joe-flacco-marty-mornhinweg-williams

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:02 pm 
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Pabst wrote:

:lol:

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