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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:58 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
So now you want to start getting shitty about it. How does Baltimore losing, 20-3, to the eventual Super Bowl champs the week following a complete ass-kicking of the Patriots on their home field at all weaken my point??

Because earlier in this thread you said: "Yeah, that pair of 8-8s were really impressive. Who really gives a fuck if they finish 8-8 and out of the playoffs, or 7-9? Season ends prematurely regardless."

Is your standard beating the Patriots or 'season ending prematurely'? What does beating the Pats matter if they got spanked prior to making the Super Bowl?

Additionally, the Ravens haven't won vs. NE since that last playoff game. Maybe Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were the factors and not John Harbaugh? Who knows, because the Ravens haven't done shit in the past few years and don't seem to be improving. And I guess 2 road playoff games from 2008 and 2012 really make more of an impact on who is a better coach in 2017.

swissvale72 wrote:
It's not all about stats, Pabst.

And the Fatal Attraction as you put it, just might have something to do with the Patriots being fatal for the Steelers Super Bowl hopes. You think it's a coincidence that when Steelers won their 5th & 6th rings, they didn't need to face the Belichickians in the playoffs?

I could give less of a shit that the Steelers didn't need to go to NE for their 2 SB wins. If Tom Brady retires tomorrow and the Steelers win another without playing NE, I also will not give a damn. Because I care more about getting the W rather than who the W comes against.

I'm pretty lucky in that the opposing NFL fans I need to deal with are the super-polite KC Chiefs fans and the perennially depressed Cleveland Browns fans. I'm sure if I lived in NE that I'd have a different outlook, but I don't.

Oh, and by my eye test, Tomlin is a better coach. There, that matters just as much as your opinion on the subject. That's why stats and references are important.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:08 pm 
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Pabst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
So now you want to start getting shitty about it. How does Baltimore losing, 20-3, to the eventual Super Bowl champs the week following a complete ass-kicking of the Patriots on their home field at all weaken my point??

Because earlier in this thread you said: "Yeah, that pair of 8-8s were really impressive. Who really gives a fuck if they finish 8-8 and out of the playoffs, or 7-9? Season ends prematurely regardless."

Is your standard beating the Patriots or 'season ending prematurely'? What does beating the Pats matter if they got spanked prior to making the Super Bowl?

Additionally, the Ravens haven't won vs. NE since that last playoff game. Maybe Ed Reed and Ray Lewis were the factors and not John Harbaugh? Who knows, because the Ravens haven't done shit in the past few years and don't seem to be improving. And I guess 2 road playoff games from 2008 and 2012 really make more of an impact on who is a better coach in 2017.

swissvale72 wrote:
It's not all about stats, Pabst.

And the Fatal Attraction as you put it, just might have something to do with the Patriots being fatal for the Steelers Super Bowl hopes. You think it's a coincidence that when Steelers won their 5th & 6th rings, they didn't need to face the Belichickians in the playoffs?

I could give less of a shit that the Steelers didn't need to go to NE for their 2 SB wins. If Tom Brady retires tomorrow and the Steelers win another without playing NE, I also will not give a damn. Because I care more about getting the W rather than who the W comes against.

I'm pretty lucky in that the opposing NFL fans I need to deal with are the super-polite KC Chiefs fans and the perennially depressed Cleveland Browns fans. I'm sure if I lived in NE that I'd have a different outlook, but I don't.

Oh, and by my eye test, Tomlin is a better coach. There, that matters just as much as your opinion on the subject. That's why stats and references are important.


We agree on this, Pabst. But we shouldn't minimize Harbaugh's accomplishment in doing twice what Tomlin has failed to do, particularly when it's a fairly good bet that Steelers will have beat New England this year in order to get to the SB.

Personally, I think the eye test, or observing a coach's coaching acumen over a period of 10 seasons matters much more than comparative win-loss records, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 7:44 pm 
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Tomlin has literally played NE once in the postseason, and if he'd have had any WRs left or if his prized RB wasn't completely disabled, he has a pretty good chance in that game. Hell, if Jesse James were capable of putting his shoulder down for a 1/2 yard extra, they were right in the game. Ben was dealing and he just had no supporting cast.

One game "when it really matters" according to you. We're judging Tomlin's ability to beat NE in a win or go home game based on a sample size of one? Might want to get some rubberized sheets to go with that book on logic and probability.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:13 pm 
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bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tomlin has literally played NE once in the postseason, and if he'd have had any WRs left or if his prized RB wasn't completely disabled, he has a pretty good chance in that game. Hell, if Jesse James were capable of putting his shoulder down for a 1/2 yard extra, they were right in the game. Ben was dealing and he just had no supporting cast.

One game "when it really matters" according to you. We're judging Tomlin's ability to beat NE in a win or go home game based on a sample size of one? Might want to get some rubberized sheets to go with that book on logic and probability.


If, if, if....listen to yourself B2B....
If its & buts were candy & nuts
If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.


You are such a freakin' excuse-maker.

How 'bout this....if his DC hadn't rushed three guys, if the 8 guys back in coverage had been closer than 10 yards from the intended receiver.

Right one playoff game. How about regular season.....got his ass kicked in '07, '10, '13, 15.

Beat Brady one freakin' time.

Point is....John Harbaugh knows how to beat the Bill Belichick; Mike Tomlin does not. More than likely, Steelers will need to beat Belichick's Patriot to make the SB.

The End.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 8:45 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
bradshaw2ben wrote:
Tomlin has literally played NE once in the postseason, and if he'd have had any WRs left or if his prized RB wasn't completely disabled, he has a pretty good chance in that game. Hell, if Jesse James were capable of putting his shoulder down for a 1/2 yard extra, they were right in the game. Ben was dealing and he just had no supporting cast.

One game "when it really matters" according to you. We're judging Tomlin's ability to beat NE in a win or go home game based on a sample size of one? Might want to get some rubberized sheets to go with that book on logic and probability.


If, if, if....listen to yourself B2B....
If its & buts were candy & nuts
If my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle.


You are such a freakin' excuse-maker.

How 'bout this....if his DC hadn't rushed three guys, if the 8 guys back in coverage had been closer than 10 yards from the intended receiver.

Right one playoff game. How about regular season.....got his ass kicked in '07, '10, '13, 15.

Beat Brady one freakin' time.

Point is....John Harbaugh knows how to beat the Bill Belichick; Mike Tomlin does not. More than likely, Steelers will need to beat Belichick's Patriot to make the SB.

The End.


I fall somewhere in the middle here. Tomlin has his team on an amazing stretch by any measure: winners of 15/17 regular season games, 17/20 counting the playoffs. If you expand the picture to include his entire tenure as coach of the Steelers, the following two knocks are observed:

1. Struggles against poor teams (especially on the road). This has resulted in missing out on a higher playoff seed or missing out on the playoffs all together, depending on the year. Repeatedly in these losses (the Bears game this year a perfect example), the game plan has seemed puzzlingly conservative, playing not to lose.

2. The Patriots. It’s not just the overall record, regular season and the one post season game, it’s the look of the game plan, particularly on defense, where the blame (from within) has often been placed on not having the right players. But Tomlin needs to look at himself here, repeatedly coming at Brady with more of the same: zone coverage, fear in the eyes of his own defense, no pressure on pretty boy. Brady’s numbers against Tomlin can’t be ignored. They’re fucking ridiculous, even by Brady’s standards. I think if Bell isn’t hurt, the offense had a chance to really do some things in the AFC championship game. Defense was a different story. That was hard to watch and there should be no repeat of it. If you get beat, at least do it trying something new.

For all the knocks against him, his historically inept time management skills, the well worn lines of bullshit following bad loses, Tomlin has done pretty well. He’s a superb motivator, his teams have played consistently well down the stretch, and he psychologically has an impressive ability to get through to players. Harbaugh? He’s done better against NE than Tomlin. And he had a run where he was getting the best of the Steelers; but overall Tomlin is, at worst, even with him as a coach in terms of ability. This is Tomlin’s best chance to kick Brady’s ass in a big game. He’ll get at least one shot at it; I’m guessing two chances. Please, Mikey, if it is two, win the second one.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:52 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Point is....John Harbaugh knows how to beat the Bill Belichick; Mike Tomlin does not.

When John Harbaugh has the talent necessary to beat Belichick, he can do so. You wouldn't expect Harbaugh to beat Belichick this year, would you?

IMO, in order to beat Brady, you need unstoppable pass rushers so that you can rush only four and still put him on his ass and good man to man cover guys. Congratulations to Harbaugh for inheriting/acquiring the talent necessary to do that. Tomlin hasn't had that talent in a long time, but he just might this year, and if he does, the results just might be different.

Let's be real. Harbaugh has lost the last two meetings to Tomlin. Tomlin's team is 8-2, Harbaugh's 4-5. Tomlin's team has been to the playoffs three years in a row. Harbaugh's team has missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons. Imagine the roles are reversed. NO ONE on this board would be calling Tomlin the better coach just because he beat the Patriots in the playoffs several years ago. NO ONE.

I used to get into debates about Tomlin, and I'd bring up that he won a super bowl (which no one on this board apparently cares about), and I'd be told that this is a what have you done for me lately league, and Tomlin's super bowl win was a long time ago.

Okay, LATELY, Tomlin's been to the AFCCG. LATELY, Harbaugh has sucked.

I'm not really moved either by the "well, Tomlin's had Ben all this time, and Harbaugh hasn't had a franchise QB." Oh, so what we're saying is that in 10 years as HC of the Ravens, he has been unable to acquire a franchise quarterback. Worse, he deemed Flacco a franchise quarterback and has paid him accordingly. Well, Tomlin has now acquired the talent to contend despite having to pay franchise QB money. Harbaugh has not.

If we are consistent in judging Harbaugh the way this board judges Tomlin, then Tomlin > Harbaugh, and it's not close, fuck Harbaugh beating Patriots years ago.

And can we kindly stop pissing our pants about having to play the Pats in the playoffs. YOU, Swiss, have decided that no Tomlin-coached team could ever beat a Belichick-coached team in the playoffs, and that's why you're so beside yourself now. I have made no such determination. Let's see what happens, shall we?


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:55 am 
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Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Point is....John Harbaugh knows how to beat the Bill Belichick; Mike Tomlin does not.

When John Harbaugh has the talent necessary to beat Belichick, he can do so. You wouldn't expect Harbaugh to beat Belichick this year, would you?

IMO, in order to beat Brady, you need unstoppable pass rushers so that you can rush only four and still put him on his ass and good man to man cover guys. Congratulations to Harbaugh for inheriting/acquiring the talent necessary to do that. Tomlin hasn't had that talent in a long time, but he just might this year, and if he does, the results just might be different.

Let's be real. Harbaugh has lost the last two meetings to Tomlin. Tomlin's team is 8-2, Harbaugh's 4-5. Tomlin's team has been to the playoffs three years in a row. Harbaugh's team has missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons. Imagine the roles are reversed. NO ONE on this board would be calling Tomlin the better coach just because he beat the Patriots in the playoffs several years ago. NO ONE.

I used to get into debates about Tomlin, and I'd bring up that he won a super bowl (which no one on this board apparently cares about), and I'd be told that this is a what have you done for me lately league, and Tomlin's super bowl win was a long time ago.

Okay, LATELY, Tomlin's been to the AFCCG. LATELY, Harbaugh has sucked.

I'm not really moved either by the "well, Tomlin's had Ben all this time, and Harbaugh hasn't had a franchise QB." Oh, so what we're saying is that in 10 years as HC of the Ravens, he has been unable to acquire a franchise quarterback. Worse, he deemed Flacco a franchise quarterback and has paid him accordingly. Well, Tomlin has now acquired the talent to contend despite having to pay franchise QB money. Harbaugh has not.

If we are consistent in judging Harbaugh the way this board judges Tomlin, then Tomlin > Harbaugh, and it's not close, fuck Harbaugh beating Patriots years ago.

And can we kindly stop pissing our pants about having to play the Pats in the playoffs. YOU, Swiss, have decided that no Tomlin-coached team could ever beat a Belichick-coached team in the playoffs, and that's why you're so beside yourself now. I have made no such determination. Let's see what happens, shall we?


I'm beside myself??? What the fuck does that mean. I'm simply not very excited about it. I'm on record, as you suggest, in saying that Tomlin won't beat Belichick in a game of any consequence, but if/when the time comes this year, I'll be believing it could happen. I've compared myself to Charlie Brown with the ball pulled out by that little bitch Lucy.

My preference for Harbaugh primarily comes from observing both guys over the years, and Harbaugh's teams have seemed better prepared, and he's not as given to dumbfuckedness as is Tomlin. And yes....I do put stock not only in Harbaugh having beaten Belichick twice in the playoffs, in Foxboro, but playing them very tough on two other occasions. Face it, most times Tomlin has faced Belichick, he's been blown the fuck out. Brady has owned Tomlin's Steelers.

And....I would be happy as fuck, absolutely over the fuckin' moon to have Tomlin prove me wrong insofar as his going up against Belichick in a big spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:05 am 
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In my mind, Tomlin and Harbaugh are pretty much equivalent. They each have their strengths, and they each have their weaknesses, but generally both re in the upper tier of coaches.

Neither holds a candle to Bill Belichick...then again, nobody in the NFL does.

No one takes prepping to win anywhere near as seriously as Belichick does (yes, that includes the cheating and bending the rules to the breaking point), but that’s primarily because he’s a colossus among pygmies.

Most NFL head coaches are pygmies...former players, most not good enough to make a long career as a player, and so they are SLIGHTLY smarter than the typical career NFLer...but not really smart in general.

Belichick is not one of those...he actually IS pretty smart in general...and combines that with football knowledge and a passion to win at all costs.

I hate the fucker as a human being, but give him credit where credit is due.

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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 2:48 pm 
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Jeemie wrote:
In my mind, Tomlin and Harbaugh are pretty much equivalent. They each have their strengths, and they each have their weaknesses, but generally both re in the upper tier of coaches.

Neither holds a candle to Bill Belichick...then again, nobody in the NFL does.

No one takes prepping to win anywhere near as seriously as Belichick does (yes, that includes the cheating and bending the rules to the breaking point), but that’s primarily because he’s a colossus among pygmies.

Most NFL head coaches are pygmies...former players, most not good enough to make a long career as a player, and so they are SLIGHTLY smarter than the typical career NFLer...but not really smart in general.

Belichick is not one of those...he actually IS pretty smart in general...and combines that with football knowledge and a passion to win at all costs.

I hate the fucker as a human being, but give him credit where credit is due.


I still remember with clarity the pasting the Steelers gave Bill B. (29-9) in the playoffs when he was with the Brownies (the week before the debacle against the Chargers - still one of the most painful losses for me to think about). My how things changed for him when he went to the Patriots. Incredible coach, there’s just no way around that. Has been a nightmare for the Steelers well before Tomlin stepped in. His press conferences after a loss still among the most enjoyable television has to offer. I hope I get to see at least one, if not two, of those in full monotone misery this season after meetings with the Steelers.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Point is....John Harbaugh knows how to beat the Bill Belichick; Mike Tomlin does not.

When John Harbaugh has the talent necessary to beat Belichick, he can do so. You wouldn't expect Harbaugh to beat Belichick this year, would you?

IMO, in order to beat Brady, you need unstoppable pass rushers so that you can rush only four and still put him on his ass and good man to man cover guys. Congratulations to Harbaugh for inheriting/acquiring the talent necessary to do that. Tomlin hasn't had that talent in a long time, but he just might this year, and if he does, the results just might be different.

Let's be real. Harbaugh has lost the last two meetings to Tomlin. Tomlin's team is 8-2, Harbaugh's 4-5. Tomlin's team has been to the playoffs three years in a row. Harbaugh's team has missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons. Imagine the roles are reversed. NO ONE on this board would be calling Tomlin the better coach just because he beat the Patriots in the playoffs several years ago. NO ONE.

I used to get into debates about Tomlin, and I'd bring up that he won a super bowl (which no one on this board apparently cares about), and I'd be told that this is a what have you done for me lately league, and Tomlin's super bowl win was a long time ago.

Okay, LATELY, Tomlin's been to the AFCCG. LATELY, Harbaugh has sucked.

I'm not really moved either by the "well, Tomlin's had Ben all this time, and Harbaugh hasn't had a franchise QB." Oh, so what we're saying is that in 10 years as HC of the Ravens, he has been unable to acquire a franchise quarterback. Worse, he deemed Flacco a franchise quarterback and has paid him accordingly. Well, Tomlin has now acquired the talent to contend despite having to pay franchise QB money. Harbaugh has not.

If we are consistent in judging Harbaugh the way this board judges Tomlin, then Tomlin > Harbaugh, and it's not close, fuck Harbaugh beating Patriots years ago.

And can we kindly stop pissing our pants about having to play the Pats in the playoffs. YOU, Swiss, have decided that no Tomlin-coached team could ever beat a Belichick-coached team in the playoffs, and that's why you're so beside yourself now. I have made no such determination. Let's see what happens, shall we?


Fucking awesome post. In fact, by Swiss's logic, Tomlin is a better coach than Belichick. Tomlin knows how to beat the Rats in the playoffs; Belichick struggles. Therefore...


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:36 pm 
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Will-the-Shake wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In my mind, Tomlin and Harbaugh are pretty much equivalent. They each have their strengths, and they each have their weaknesses, but generally both re in the upper tier of coaches.

Neither holds a candle to Bill Belichick...then again, nobody in the NFL does.

No one takes prepping to win anywhere near as seriously as Belichick does (yes, that includes the cheating and bending the rules to the breaking point), but that’s primarily because he’s a colossus among pygmies.

Most NFL head coaches are pygmies...former players, most not good enough to make a long career as a player, and so they are SLIGHTLY smarter than the typical career NFLer...but not really smart in general.

Belichick is not one of those...he actually IS pretty smart in general...and combines that with football knowledge and a passion to win at all costs.

I hate the fucker as a human being, but give him credit where credit is due.


I still remember with clarity the pasting the Steelers gave Bill B. (29-9) in the playoffs when he was with the Brownies (the week before the debacle against the Chargers - still one of the most painful losses for me to think about). My how things changed for him when he went to the Patriots. Incredible coach, there’s just no way around that. Has been a nightmare for the Steelers well before Tomlin stepped in. His press conferences after a loss still among the most enjoyable television has to offer. I hope I get to see at least one, if not two, of those in full monotone misery this season after meetings with the Steelers.


I had no more faith in Cowher beating the Belichick Patriots than I do in Tomlin. Best example was the '01 AFCCG where we have Troy Edwards running OOB on punt coverage, the Cowher-coached Steelers having done nothing to correct that mistake, but Belichick notifying officials of it pre-game. Sure enough, Steelers get flagged for it, re-kick, Troy Brown takes it to the house to open the scoring.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 5:38 pm 
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pickarooney wrote:
Poltargyst wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Point is....John Harbaugh knows how to beat the Bill Belichick; Mike Tomlin does not.

When John Harbaugh has the talent necessary to beat Belichick, he can do so. You wouldn't expect Harbaugh to beat Belichick this year, would you?

IMO, in order to beat Brady, you need unstoppable pass rushers so that you can rush only four and still put him on his ass and good man to man cover guys. Congratulations to Harbaugh for inheriting/acquiring the talent necessary to do that. Tomlin hasn't had that talent in a long time, but he just might this year, and if he does, the results just might be different.

Let's be real. Harbaugh has lost the last two meetings to Tomlin. Tomlin's team is 8-2, Harbaugh's 4-5. Tomlin's team has been to the playoffs three years in a row. Harbaugh's team has missed the playoffs 3 of the last 4 seasons. Imagine the roles are reversed. NO ONE on this board would be calling Tomlin the better coach just because he beat the Patriots in the playoffs several years ago. NO ONE.

I used to get into debates about Tomlin, and I'd bring up that he won a super bowl (which no one on this board apparently cares about), and I'd be told that this is a what have you done for me lately league, and Tomlin's super bowl win was a long time ago.

Okay, LATELY, Tomlin's been to the AFCCG. LATELY, Harbaugh has sucked.

I'm not really moved either by the "well, Tomlin's had Ben all this time, and Harbaugh hasn't had a franchise QB." Oh, so what we're saying is that in 10 years as HC of the Ravens, he has been unable to acquire a franchise quarterback. Worse, he deemed Flacco a franchise quarterback and has paid him accordingly. Well, Tomlin has now acquired the talent to contend despite having to pay franchise QB money. Harbaugh has not.

If we are consistent in judging Harbaugh the way this board judges Tomlin, then Tomlin > Harbaugh, and it's not close, fuck Harbaugh beating Patriots years ago.

And can we kindly stop pissing our pants about having to play the Pats in the playoffs. YOU, Swiss, have decided that no Tomlin-coached team could ever beat a Belichick-coached team in the playoffs, and that's why you're so beside yourself now. I have made no such determination. Let's see what happens, shall we?


Fucking awesome post. In fact, by Swiss's logic, Tomlin is a better coach than Belichick. Tomlin knows how to beat the Rats in the playoffs; Belichick struggles. Therefore...


Hey Picka...go into the Kids Room to debate, where you belong. What the fuck are you talking about. Last time Tomlin faced Harbaugh in the playoffs, was the Saturday Night Massacre at Heinz. Harbaugh kicked his ass.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:42 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In my mind, Tomlin and Harbaugh are pretty much equivalent. They each have their strengths, and they each have their weaknesses, but generally both re in the upper tier of coaches.

Neither holds a candle to Bill Belichick...then again, nobody in the NFL does.

No one takes prepping to win anywhere near as seriously as Belichick does (yes, that includes the cheating and bending the rules to the breaking point), but that’s primarily because he’s a colossus among pygmies.

Most NFL head coaches are pygmies...former players, most not good enough to make a long career as a player, and so they are SLIGHTLY smarter than the typical career NFLer...but not really smart in general.

Belichick is not one of those...he actually IS pretty smart in general...and combines that with football knowledge and a passion to win at all costs.

I hate the fucker as a human being, but give him credit where credit is due.


I still remember with clarity the pasting the Steelers gave Bill B. (29-9) in the playoffs when he was with the Brownies (the week before the debacle against the Chargers - still one of the most painful losses for me to think about). My how things changed for him when he went to the Patriots. Incredible coach, there’s just no way around that. Has been a nightmare for the Steelers well before Tomlin stepped in. His press conferences after a loss still among the most enjoyable television has to offer. I hope I get to see at least one, if not two, of those in full monotone misery this season after meetings with the Steelers.


I had no more faith in Cowher beating the Belichick Patriots than I do in Tomlin. Best example was the '01 AFCCG where we have Troy Edwards running OOB on punt coverage, the Cowher-coached Steelers having done nothing to correct that mistake, but Belichick notifying officials of it pre-game. Sure enough, Steelers get flagged for it, re-kick, Troy Brown takes it to the house to open the scoring.


I still get sick to my stomach thinking of that play, that first half, that game. Ironically, it was the knocking out of Brady that might have proved the difference. He looked scared shitless in that game. Bledsoe replaced him with a nothing to lose approach and managed to get them over the finish line. Impossible to know for sure, but Brady looked primed to make a number of mistakes had he not been knocked out. In all the years since I’ve been screaming for the Steelers to knock him out and they can’t do it. The one time they did, all those years ago, and I think it hurt them. I agree with you that Cowher looked just as helpless trying to coach against Belichick. At least Tomlin managed to win his AFC title games at home. Certainly can’t hurt their chances by making the possible playoff matchup a home game this year. And I know it’s been said before, and I echo it, if you have to, you hold receivers and get a hit on him. Somehow, in some way shape or form, you hit him early. Do not let Brady stand back there and survey the field like he’s watching his wife in a runway show.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:45 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Will-the-Shake wrote:
Jeemie wrote:
In my mind, Tomlin and Harbaugh are pretty much equivalent. They each have their strengths, and they each have their weaknesses, but generally both re in the upper tier of coaches.

Neither holds a candle to Bill Belichick...then again, nobody in the NFL does.

No one takes prepping to win anywhere near as seriously as Belichick does (yes, that includes the cheating and bending the rules to the breaking point), but that’s primarily because he’s a colossus among pygmies.

Most NFL head coaches are pygmies...former players, most not good enough to make a long career as a player, and so they are SLIGHTLY smarter than the typical career NFLer...but not really smart in general.

Belichick is not one of those...he actually IS pretty smart in general...and combines that with football knowledge and a passion to win at all costs.

I hate the fucker as a human being, but give him credit where credit is due.


I still remember with clarity the pasting the Steelers gave Bill B. (29-9) in the playoffs when he was with the Brownies (the week before the debacle against the Chargers - still one of the most painful losses for me to think about). My how things changed for him when he went to the Patriots. Incredible coach, there’s just no way around that. Has been a nightmare for the Steelers well before Tomlin stepped in. His press conferences after a loss still among the most enjoyable television has to offer. I hope I get to see at least one, if not two, of those in full monotone misery this season after meetings with the Steelers.


I had no more faith in Cowher beating the Belichick Patriots than I do in Tomlin. Best example was the '01 AFCCG where we have Troy Edwards running OOB on punt coverage, the Cowher-coached Steelers having done nothing to correct that mistake, but Belichick notifying officials of it pre-game. Sure enough, Steelers get flagged for it, re-kick, Troy Brown takes it to the house to open the scoring.


I still get sick to my stomach thinking of that play, that first half, that game. Ironically, it was the knocking out of Brady that might have proved the difference. He looked scared shitless in that game. Bledsoe replaced him with a nothing to lose approach and managed to get them over the finish line. Impossible to know for sure, but Brady looked primed to make a number of mistakes had he not been knocked out. In all the years since I’ve been screaming for the Steelers to knock him out and they can’t do it. The one time they did, all those years ago, and I think it hurt them. I agree with you that Cowher looked just as helpless trying to coach against Belichick. At least Tomlin managed to win his AFC title games at home. Certainly can’t hurt their chances by making the possible playoff matchup a home game this year. And I know it’s been said before, and I echo it, if you have to, you hold receivers and get a hit on him. Somehow, in some way shape or form, you hit him early. Do not let Brady stand back there and survey the field like he’s watching his wife in a runway show.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:47 pm 
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You can say that again! :)


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:50 pm 
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Hey Picka...go into the Kids Room to debate, where you belong. What the fuck are you talking about. Last time Tomlin faced Harbaugh in the playoffs, was the Saturday Night Massacre at Heinz. Harbaugh kicked his ass.[/quote]

Tomlin 2, Harbaugh 1 last time I checked. I'll leave you to your serious man-talk though.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 6:51 pm 
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pickarooney wrote:
Hey Picka...go into the Kids Room to debate, where you belong. What the fuck are you talking about. Last time Tomlin faced Harbaugh in the playoffs, was the Saturday Night Massacre at Heinz. Harbaugh kicked his ass.


Tomlin 2, Harbaugh 1 last time I checked. I'll leave you to your serious man-talk though.[/quote]

True enough...please keep trying, through your bullshit logic, to convey that per my thinking, Tomlin is a better coach than Belichick.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:45 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
pickarooney wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Hey Picka...go into the Kids Room to debate, where you belong. What the fuck are you talking about. Last time Tomlin faced Harbaugh in the playoffs, was the Saturday Night Massacre at Heinz. Harbaugh kicked his ass.


Tomlin 2, Harbaugh 1 last time I checked. I'll leave you to your serious man-talk though.


True enough...please keep trying, through your bullshit logic, to convey that per my thinking, Tomlin is a better coach than Belichick.


That's the point, Swiss. Your logic that two games define Harbaugh as better than Tomlin is just as weak as Tomlin being better than Belichick because he owns the Chiefs or has a better playoff record vs Harbaugh.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 10:55 pm 
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Try this again....

*Yes, the ability to beat this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, on their home field, more than once, says alot.

*The ability to play this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, very, very tough, on their home field, even in losing efforts, says alot.

*Comparing the record of the coach referenced above, to the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who consistently gets his ass kicked in similar circumstances, says alot.

*And lastly, once again, observing these two guys over nearly the identical period of time, seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

So, in the end, it isn't JUST Harbaugh's ability to beat Belichick, but his ability to play him tough, and his general qualities as a coach compared to Tomlin that inform my opinion.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:09 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Try this again....

*Yes, the ability to beat this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, on their home field, more than once, says alot.

*The ability to play this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, very, very tough, on their home field, even in losing efforts, says alot.

*Comparing the record of the coach referenced above, to the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who consistently gets his ass kicked in similar circumstances, says alot.

*And lastly, once again, observing these two guys over nearly the identical period of time, seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

So, in the end, it isn't JUST Harbaugh's ability to beat Belichick, but his ability to play him tough, and his general qualities as a coach compared to Tomlin that inform my opinion.




Perfectly stated and I completely agree.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:38 pm 
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swissvale72 wrote:
Try this again....

*Yes, the ability to beat this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, on their home field, more than once, says alot.

*The ability to play this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, very, very tough, on their home field, even in losing efforts, says alot.

*Comparing the record of the coach referenced above, to the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who consistently gets his ass kicked in similar circumstances, says alot.

*And lastly, once again, observing these two guys over nearly the identical period of time, seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

So, in the end, it isn't JUST Harbaugh's ability to beat Belichick, but his ability to play him tough, and his general qualities as a coach compared to Tomlin that inform my opinion.


You've itemized 4 points. Three of them are basically the same. Beat Belichick or some version on that theme. Not debateable other than player talent and scheme, which is a huge factor. Don't forget, Tomlin has shown he can beat Belichick and Brady. Now, why he hasn't used that game plan since, only he can answer. But, to say he doesn't have the ability or isn't capable is flat our wrong.

As for your 4th point, that's perception and debatable. But, let's just say that's true. What has attention to detail and game management gotten Harbaugh over Tomlin? A miracle SB run? Tomlin went to 2. Harbaugh hasn't built a championship roster. He inherited a world class defense and did kittle with it minus that one miracle run. He only beat Pit once they were old and slow and did minimal against the rest of the league with it.

Additionally, Tomlin has shown an ability to build a championship roster all his own. Harbaugh hasn't shown that ability, yet..

So, back you your original thought. You prefer Harbaugh. Fair enough. Your prerogative. However, it isn't by any means a definitive choice nor obvious.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:01 am 
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randomsteelerfan wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Try this again....

*Yes, the ability to beat this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, on their home field, more than once, says alot.

*The ability to play this era's pre-eminent team in the playoffs, very, very tough, on their home field, even in losing efforts, says alot.

*Comparing the record of the coach referenced above, to the coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers, who consistently gets his ass kicked in similar circumstances, says alot.

*And lastly, once again, observing these two guys over nearly the identical period of time, seeing the attention to detail and game management of one guy (Harbaugh) as superior to that of the other guy (Tomlin) says alot as well.

So, in the end, it isn't JUST Harbaugh's ability to beat Belichick, but his ability to play him tough, and his general qualities as a coach compared to Tomlin that inform my opinion.


You've itemized 4 points. Three of them are basically the same. Beat Belichick or some version on that theme. Not debateable other than player talent and scheme, which is a huge factor. Don't forget, Tomlin has shown he can beat Belichick and Brady. Now, why he hasn't used that game plan since, only he can answer. But, to say he doesn't have the ability or isn't capable is flat our wrong.

As for your 4th point, that's perception and debatable. But, let's just say that's true. What has attention to detail and game management gotten Harbaugh over Tomlin? A miracle SB run? Tomlin went to 2. Harbaugh hasn't built a championship roster. He inherited a world class defense and did kittle with it minus that one miracle run. He only beat Pit once they were old and slow and did minimal against the rest of the league with it.

Additionally, Tomlin has shown an ability to build a championship roster all his own. Harbaugh hasn't shown that ability, yet..

So, back you your original thought. You prefer Harbaugh. Fair enough. Your prerogative. However, it isn't by any means a definitive choice nor obvious.


Never said it was obvious or definitive. This started back on page 3 of this OP, when someone mentioned some of us once having said we preferred Harbaugh and my stating that I still prefer Harbaugh. Yes, it's my prerogative. I think Harbaugh's the better coach based on the arguments I've made. You can discount his record against Belichick all you want...both playoff and regular season. I don't get, after last year's AFCCG, and the ass-whippin' the Patriots laid on the Steelers, how that record can be discounted so easily.

Patriots are the current 800-pound guerrilla of the NFL. Harbaugh has shown an ability to beat the Patriots in big spots. Tomlin has shown the ability to be beaten like a fuckin' drum. Sorry, I think that's goddamn important.

And yes...certainly my opinion, nothing more.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:57 am 
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The thing that weighs most in Harbaugh's favor is that he's had to do it with Flacco at QB vs Tomlin having a HOF QB in Ben.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:36 am 
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franco32 wrote:
The thing that weighs most in Harbaugh's favor is that he's had to do it with Flacco at QB vs Tomlin having a HOF QB in Ben.


But what exactly has he done better or more of than Tomlin? Less overall wins, less SB trips. He’s done less than Tomlin, comparatively, with a lesser QB. Why is that a ding against Tomlin?

And now that his roster is turning over, the ravens are even less relevant than when the Steelers were turning over theirs.

Look, believe me, I’m frustrated as fuck with Tomlin, especially after last year. But, to me, Harbaugh hasn’t done anything exceptional to warrant me wanting him over Tomlin. Then, when you include the “Harbaugh Douche” factor, it’s an hell no for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Steelers 14-2 over their last 16 regular season games
PostPosted: Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:30 am 
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Just for the record...
Harbaugh vs Belichick...3-5 career
Tomlin vs Belichick...2-6 career
FWIW

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