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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:13 pm 
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Deebo wrote:
Swiss you've been wrong since November on this and were very nasty and occasionally threatening to anyone the least bit objective on JoePa. The critics have been right all along and it's worse than I thought.

The main reason that football shouldn't be played is the warped culture of reverence that allowed horrible crimes to be committed. Those priorities are still warped and shock therapy is the only solution.

BTW, even if I were a JoePa supporter, I'd want the statue down. Someone is going to go after it. That's not a wild prediction. Think of the fathers of those boys and how they're feeling about the trustees decision.



Threatening?? You serious?? Deebo....objectively, you're more or less called anyone an asshole that has a different opinon than you on this issue. I dunno....I think I've tried, if anything, to rail against speculation and assumption.

As far as your final statement, let's remember, the reason that lots of these kids were affiiliated with Sandusky was because their dads were largely absent.

It's just too bad that in this mess that a fuckin' inanimate object is such an issue. Sorry, I'm against statues with the exception of those of mascots, like the Nittany Lion or the Panther that you see around the Pitt campus.


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 Post Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 11:35 pm 
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It's not a bold prediction. It's the same reason those statues of Lenin came down so hard in 91.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:46 am 
 
The Trustees have adopted a "wait and see" plan just like Spanier et al did with Sandusky. Great idea!

PSU, meanwhile, has assigned a guard to the statue because someone somewhere understands the iconic power, since the beginning of human history, that statues have for arousing strong passions in many, many people. I wouldn't be surprised if the Trustees non-decision leads to someone being seriously injured or even worse.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:21 am 
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Deebo wrote:
Trustees officially are tone deaf and monumentally stupid.

Just on a practical level, hide it before someone destroys it as performance art.

There will be bounties on it. One of JS victims will be personally motivated to destroy it. Let them try to prosecute him for vandalism.

BTW I find it ironic that the Moonies are now arguing against a mob mentality on the death penalty.


Well from a legal angle on this, keeping the statute up will probably cost Penn State a lot at trial in the civil cases. Instead of costing Penn State about 100 million, the total costs could instead hit 200 million. That's a lot of money for the Trustees to waste just because they are afraid of the alumni who are almost as guilty as Paterno in all of this since they were the ones that enabled Paterno when he should have retired years ago.


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:13 am 
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collector423 wrote:
Deebo wrote:
Trustees officially are tone deaf and monumentally stupid.

Just on a practical level, hide it before someone destroys it as performance art.

There will be bounties on it. One of JS victims will be personally motivated to destroy it. Let them try to prosecute him for vandalism.

BTW I find it ironic that the Moonies are now arguing against a mob mentality on the death penalty.


Well from a legal angle on this, keeping the statute up will probably cost Penn State a lot at trial in the civil cases. Instead of costing Penn State about 100 million, the total costs could instead hit 200 million. That's a lot of money for the Trustees to waste just because they are afraid of the alumni who are almost as guilty as Paterno in all of this since they were the ones that enabled Paterno when he should have retired years ago.


I don't know how true that is, Collector, as there's a difference between the alumni having reverence for Paterno vs. wanting him to continue as Head Coach.

I can only speak to this anecdotally. My brother's a PSU alum, Class of '68. He goes to every game, had Club Seats (another fuckin' ripoff, but that's another story). His biggest frustration, for a number of year, as a Penn State fan, was Paterno NOT stepping down, feeling as though his continuing was definitely holding back the program. Alot of his alumni friends felt the same way


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:56 am 
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swissvale72 wrote:
I don't know how true that is, Collector, as there's a difference between the alumni having reverence for Paterno vs. wanting him to continue as Head Coach.

I can only speak to this anecdotally. My brother's a PSU alum, Class of '68. He goes to every game, had Club Seats (another fuckin' ripoff, but that's another story). His biggest frustration, for a number of year, as a Penn State fan, was Paterno NOT stepping down, feeling as though his continuing was definitely holding back the program. Alot of his alumni friends felt the same way


Agree with you on this, Swiss.

Anecdotal on my part as well, but I am an alum with a decently-sized group of alumni friends and acquaintances, and I don't think I could come up with 2 peopl in that group who didn't think Paterno should have retired years earlier.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:57 am 
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I also think he should've stepped down

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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:59 am 
 
swissvale72 wrote:
Deebo wrote:
Swiss you've been wrong since November on this and were very nasty and occasionally threatening to anyone the least bit objective on JoePa. The critics have been right all along and it's worse than I thought.

The main reason that football shouldn't be played is the warped culture of reverence that allowed horrible crimes to be committed. Those priorities are still warped and shock therapy is the only solution.

BTW, even if I were a JoePa supporter, I'd want the statue down. Someone is going to go after it. That's not a wild prediction. Think of the fathers of those boys and how they're feeling about the trustees decision.



Threatening?? You serious?? Deebo....objectively, you're more or less called anyone an asshole that has a different opinon than you on this issue. I dunno....I think I've tried, if anything, to rail against speculation and assumption.

As far as your final statement, let's remember, the reason that lots of these kids were affiiliated with Sandusky was because their dads were largely absent.

It's just too bad that in this mess that a fuckin' inanimate object is such an issue. Sorry, I'm against statues with the exception of those of mascots, like the Nittany Lion or the Panther that you see around the Pitt campus.


Swiss! You're "against statues?" I don't think so. Statue of Liberty? Lincoln Memorial? Marine Corps (Iwo Jima flag raising)? Franco at the airport? A statue is almost never merely an inanimate object. They represent beliefs, values, ideas. A secular statue isn't always or even frequently about idolatry. Secular statues aren't erected to provoke worship, more like appreciation. America is a country of statues, college campuses across the country abound in them. You can't reduce them to mere inanimate objects. They almost always have a life. Sure the life is figurative not literal, but often the figurative is more powerful than the literal; the main reason art exists.

The controversy over the Paterno statue isn't over an inanimate object. The controversy is over what the statue symbolizes. And the statue powerfully symbolizes two opposing ideas to two passionate groups of people (nothing new here either just Google u.s. + controversy + statue). Is the statue an acknowledgment of a great man or an affront to common decency, an in-your-face not only to Sandusky's victims but to all victims of child assault? The Trustees can't have it both ways but that's their current game. Do you think keeping the statue is the kind of gesture from Penn State that the Freeh Report is asking for?


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:20 am 
 
Jeemie wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
I don't know how true that is, Collector, as there's a difference between the alumni having reverence for Paterno vs. wanting him to continue as Head Coach.

I can only speak to this anecdotally. My brother's a PSU alum, Class of '68. He goes to every game, had Club Seats (another fuckin' ripoff, but that's another story). His biggest frustration, for a number of year, as a Penn State fan, was Paterno NOT stepping down, feeling as though his continuing was definitely holding back the program. Alot of his alumni friends felt the same way


Agree with you on this, Swiss.

Anecdotal on my part as well, but I am an alum with a decently-sized group of alumni friends and acquaintances, and I don't think I could come up with 2 peopl in that group who didn't think Paterno should have retired years earlier.


I agree and I think this only further demonstrates Paterno's power at Penn State and in the state of Pa. 20 years ago he's losing, the fans are on him, the media, the non-football alumni, his bosses come to fire him. He stays, he and his remaining supporters more powerful than all of them. Then his teams started winning again. Penn State got back in the national picture. Did this cause his power to wane? Cause him to suddenly become deferential to his nominal supervisors? Really?


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 Post Posted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:35 am 
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hesske wrote:
swissvale72 wrote:
Deebo wrote:
Swiss you've been wrong since November on this and were very nasty and occasionally threatening to anyone the least bit objective on JoePa. The critics have been right all along and it's worse than I thought.

The main reason that football shouldn't be played is the warped culture of reverence that allowed horrible crimes to be committed. Those priorities are still warped and shock therapy is the only solution.

BTW, even if I were a JoePa supporter, I'd want the statue down. Someone is going to go after it. That's not a wild prediction. Think of the fathers of those boys and how they're feeling about the trustees decision.



Threatening?? You serious?? Deebo....objectively, you're more or less called anyone an asshole that has a different opinon than you on this issue. I dunno....I think I've tried, if anything, to rail against speculation and assumption.

As far as your final statement, let's remember, the reason that lots of these kids were affiiliated with Sandusky was because their dads were largely absent.

It's just too bad that in this mess that a fuckin' inanimate object is such an issue. Sorry, I'm against statues with the exception of those of mascots, like the Nittany Lion or the Panther that you see around the Pitt campus.


Swiss! You're "against statues?" I don't think so. Statue of Liberty? Lincoln Memorial? Marine Corps (Iwo Jima flag raising)? Franco at the airport? A statue is almost never merely an inanimate object. They represent beliefs, values, ideas. A secular statue isn't always or even frequently about idolatry. Secular statues aren't erected to provoke worship, more like appreciation. America is a country of statues, college campuses across the country abound in them. You can't reduce them to mere inanimate objects. They almost always have a life. Sure the life is figurative not literal, but often the figurative is more powerful than the literal; the main reason art exists.

The controversy over the Paterno statue isn't over an inanimate object. The controversy is over what the statue symbolizes. And the statue powerfully symbolizes two opposing ideas to two passionate groups of people (nothing new here either just Google u.s. + controversy + statue). Is the statue an acknowledgment of a great man or an affront to common decency, an in-your-face not only to Sandusky's victims but to all victims of child assault? The Trustees can't have it both ways but that's their current game. Do you think keeping the statue is the kind of gesture from Penn State that the Freeh Report is asking for?


It's just me, Hesske. Personally, I just think that statues of people are fuckin' wierd. They never look enough like the person that you're trying to emulate and if it involves public money to erect and then to maintain,I think it should be spent addressing society's ills. That said, I understand that alot of the dough for statues is raised privately. THAT said, I wish those contributors would direct their charitable dollars to society's ills.

Anyway, I particularly don't like statues of famous people, and especially when they're still living. That would include Mario, but also the posthumous statues of Clemente, Stargell and Rooney and yes...Lincoln. I'm more okay with the Nittany Lion, the Panther,the Statue of Liberty, the Iwo Jima Memorial and the Korean War Memorial.


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