I think Jack (Lambert58 not Kennedy ) hit on something that's always bothered me about these so-called conspiracy theories. Why hasn't the Kennedy family pursued any independent investigations or openly questioned the findings of the Warren Commission or the House investigation in '78? If anyone had a vested interest in finding the real assassin(s) and/or those responsible, wouldn't you think it would be the Kennedy family? God knows they would have the resources AND the media on their side into looking at this.

I understand what JFK represents to many Americans. Talking to my parents about that time, it was a time of promise and the feeling that America could achieve anything. Mind you, my parents were staunch Republicans, but they understood what President Kennedy represented and the feeling of the country at the time. When that was abruptly taken away on November 22, 1963, and replaced by Lyndon Baines Johnson who many in this country didn't care for even before Vietnam became a household name, it really shook the country to its core. Shit started unraveling not long after that - Vietnam, riots in our cities, MLK and RFK assassinations, Watergate, etc.

For those of you who are old enough to remember that time - think of it. The difference between 1963 and 1973 and then think now the difference between 2002 and now. It's not even comparable. And a ton of people attribute it to President Kennedy's assassination, and maybe there's a lot of truth to that. Think what you want, but in my opinion, that's why many are so quick to assume there was a conspiracy responsible for his assassination.

_________________

Yinz, your last paragraph, I fully agree with. It's a profound observation. And I do think a lot of dominos fell once JFK was assassinated. And I agree that is why a great many folk believe there was a cause to making all that happen. And most of us are reluctant to feel that such a great President, and such a wave of hope, could be stilled by a lone nut case.

There has never been enough proof to content it was anything but that, but there are a lot of theories, and some evidence, some of it questionable, some of it reputable. The thing is the further away we get from the event, the more difficult it is to piece together what actually happened on that fateful day in Dallas. A whole lot of folks were affected by that day. Pearl Harbor, JFK assassination and 9/11, 3 days that will live in infamy and 3 days that anyone who lived through (2 of 3 for me) will never forget where they were, what they were doing, who they were with and what they felt at that moment in time. So far, one of those events led to the greatest generation rising up and defeating the greatest evil known to man, and creating a wave of prosperity in the wake. The other led to what you pointed out, which I contend we are still to this day reeling from. The 3rd event looks to be negative so far, a world wide near depression, but history remains a little bit unwritten yet with that.

I'm not so sure the media would be on the side of the Kennedys, should they have called for a full scale investigation (I always liked that phrase, by the way, it is very Seinfeld-esque). Those who were close to RFK claim that he discussed doing just that if he were elected to the Presidency in 1968. And then there are the rumors of a conspiracy related to his assassination as well.

I tend not to believe the government about too much. I believe that started turning for a lot of Americans in the aftermath of the JFK assassination, not only because of it, but also because of what we were left with since then. So your point is well taken.

Not to get too political. I only liked two presidents in my life-time, one great, the other very good. Ike was a very good President, his time in office was a fairly quiet time. JFK was a great president in my view. Not only for what he actually did, which is debateable, but for what he could inspire. Even today if I listen to one of his speeches on tape or youtube, I feel inspired, like I'm being talked to by a great man who wants to lead our country into greatness.

_________________
Playing football was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. If I could go out today and suit up, I would do it.--Jack Butler

Another interesting thing about President Kennedy is that he didn't start off as the charismatic, outgoing type. He was pretty much a shy, introverted guy who really was uncomfortable in crowds because he spent great amounts of time bed-ridden with sickness as a child.

It was really his big brother Joe who was groomed to be President. That was old man Joe's plan. Unfortuntely, Jack's heroism in the Pacific on PT-109 may have indirectly caused Joe's death with that hokey mission in a plane packed with explosives. It was speculated that Joe was jealous of Jack and volunteered for that mission.

After Joe's death, old man Joe's attention turned to Jack, and politics were kind of foisted upon him. Jack seemed to adapt to it fairly well and quickly winning the '46 Congressional Race in Charlestown. The rest, as they say, is history.

Here's a pic with Congressional candidate Kennedy, Ted Williams and Hank Greenburg at Fenway in 1946. Imagine if you had a ball autographed by all three of them and how much that would be worth today.

_________________

Great stuff, Jack. I knew some of that about JFK, but not all, thanks. And great photo.

_________________
Playing football was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. If I could go out today and suit up, I would do it.--Jack Butler

Just some brief examples of what I was talking about. I would have run through a wall for this man.

_________________
Playing football was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. If I could go out today and suit up, I would do it.--Jack Butler

I've read that all the gov't files on the assassination of JFK are locked away until 2038, which would be 75 years after the event. Why is that?

And I'm sorry to get off-topic (a bit), but I found this interesting: http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-28/justice/justice_california-rfk-second-gun_1_sirhan-sirhan-federal-court-assassination?_s=PM:JUSTICE

Ol Skool, I agree, and the fact that it will take so long for those to be released just seems suspicious to me. A generation twice removed will be more forgiving of those who may have been involved, no matter their power/position, from so long ago.

I am familiar with some of the suggestions of a second shooter in the RFK assassination as well, so thanks for linking that article. No problem mixing the two in the discussion.

_________________
Playing football was the greatest thing that ever happened to me. If I could go out today and suit up, I would do it.--Jack Butler

I don't know, MJG. Can you imagine (hypothetically) learning that the gov't did in fact take JFK out...and saying to yourself, "Fine by me"?

What about the same situation re: RFK?

Unless it's somehow proven that they were secretly Soviet agents, what would justify a hit?

Robert Caro's fourth volume of his LBJ bio, 'The Passage of Power,' discussed some of the stuff that came out after the assassination that LBJ did not know beforehand, mostly that Robert Kennedy had the CIA undertake numerous assassination attempts at Castro after the Bay of Pigs, many using people that were connected to the Mafia. The book also talked about RFK's vendetta against Hoffa. It would not surprise me if some of the stuff that RFK stirred up in these illegal actions ended up being responsible for JFK's death.

The Caro's books are interesting. The second book detailed how LBJ stole his first election to the Senate by stuffing the ballot boxes. I think in the end history will find that Kennedy, LBJ and Nixon were all fairly outside the law as to how they conducted their political lives and presidencies, with JFK perhaps not being as bad as the other members of his family who acted on his behalf and Nixon being the one that most went over the line.

Thanks for posting those speeches MeanJoe.

Love the Ich bin ein Berliner speech. "We've never had to put up a wall to keep our people in." Classic. JFK made that speech right next to the Wall, and folks from East Berlin, including the guards could easily watch and listen. I went to Berlin in 2003 and saw Checkpoint Charlie, The Brandenburg Gate and seen those last remaining portions of the Wall still standing for posterity's sake. Amazing to me were the monuments to those who were shot and killed trying to escape into the West. Some of those monuments were dated 1989 so right up to the very last year before reunification. Too bad JFK wasn't alive to see Berlin and Germany reunited.

_________________