[response spoken by a robotic Clint Hurdle]

Grilli is the "set up man"

Grilli is the "set up man"

Grilli is the "set up man"

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same shit last year with Hurdle and Veras -- he refused to alter his relief rotation in the face of poor play or better odds with someone else. That's why he won't use anyone but Grilli in the 8th.

I have no fucking idea how Grilli actually EARNED that role -- I would think Juan Cruz should be that guy if he's looking for an 8th inning "set up man" that he can use in all situations.

Of course, the best thing to do is to not lock in on only one guy as 'set up man' and instead go with a variety of pitchers depending on the situation. As you point out, after Grilli struck out the 1st 2 righthanded batters in the 8th, Hurdle should have considered using a different reliever to face the lefthanded Either - such as the lefthanded Tony Watson. That would have been a smart smart move, had Hurdle not been locked into his robotic "set up man" routine.

Problem is the Bucs only have one lefty in the pen. So a manager isn't going to want to use up his only lefty with 2 outs and none on. You might not have confidence in Grilli to get Ethier out but you have to figure he can keep the ball in the yard. Hurdle only has the option of matching Watson up against a lefty once. He sure as shit wants to save it for a situation when guys are on base and he needs the out.

that's definitely the conventional wisdom --- but it was the bottom of 8th inning in a tie game, and a big hitter was at the plate.

Phils did something similar when they failed to pitch Papelbon in a non-save situation in the 9th inning the other day -- their manager is also very conventional, like Hurdle, and that's why he stuck with the reliever who gave up the big hit to Cutch rather than use Papelbon. Those "conventions" drive me nuts, but I understand why they do it. I guess it's always a lot easier for us to sit here and second guess decisions after the fact.

I don't see those situations as all that similar. A late lead as opposed to a tie game are completely different animals. Hurdle had no idea how many outs he might need from his pen. There are situations when it makes sense to break from roles and others where it doesn't. 2 out, none on, tie game it just doesn't make sense. Again, Grilli doesn't have to get Ethier out. He just has to keep the ball in the yard. You have to give players a chance to earn some trust. Otherwise you'll never be able to make a decision with conviction and that would end being more damaging than failing with the plan in place. Now the Phillies I think should have brought the closer in for the 4 out save. Boxing a closer into one inning only usage is my pet peeve and one of the few complaints you'll hear from me on how today's managers handle their bullpens. Late leads are precious and should be protected with your best available arm.

Agreed.

On the similarity idea, I only meant in the idea of how managers use their bullpens at the end of games. I wasn't saying the 2 situations were similar beyond that -- important late game bullpen usage.

So let's see, the Bucs have faced three of the best pitchers (arguably THE three best) in baseball now - Halliday, Lee and Kershaw - and have lost two games. Gotta think things will be getting better. Call me optimistic.

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Yeah -- Halladay, Lee and Kershaw in first 4 is tough news

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You are in a tied ball game. No one expects Ethier to blast a homer there.

What do you do if they do put Watson in and he gets Ethier out? Pirates don't score in the bottom half and then in the tenth you have to remove Watson because he would be facing a righty, next batter after that is James Loney, a lefty.....

Fuck, tied game, top nine I would walk Ethier before I'd bring in Watson.

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Agree sham, plus Ethier isnt exactly Prince Fielder. What did he hit, 10 HR's all of last season. Can't fault Hurdle here.

Problems of having very few R/L options if you only have one Loogy in the pen. Might be nice to add another at some point down the road for just these types of situations.

Otherwise, I agree with Sham. A walk might not have been too bad, but I think that Grilli should have been able to get that out.

Not basing it solely on this particular situation, but I'm not fully sold on Grilli yet, stretching back to when we first picked him up later in the year last season.

Plenty of baseball to be played yet though and we'll see how he and others pan out with some more sample size. I agree that this is a pretty tough stretch of baseball to be playing and if we do make it out of the month at .500 that will be damn good moving forward. Of course, I'm greedy and want more!

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