perhaps players are bad choices
perhaps they are like fans and too attached to one team or their friends

but the real issue is what TB just said -- it is a preposterous method and likely aggravated by bias of the players chosen be it positional, team-related or friendship/dislike

scouts and gms would most certainly be better and they would need to list their top 100 not 20

all that aside -- who gives a shit. its just fodder for tv. didnt mike and mike start all this list making shit

or do we blame david letterman or VH1?

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“White collar conservative flashin down the street, pointing that plastic finger at me, they all assume my kind will drop and die, but I'm gonna wave my freak flag high.”
Jimi Hendrix

this is just your opinion

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Colbert on the #Steelers RB situation: "Where we were in running game last year was indicative in the talent at the position.''

I have always said that most steelers fans don't want to deal with facts they run and hide under their bed when presented with facts.

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Legendary Internet Troll

Oh, I think more here "grasp the concept" that you would like to believe.

1. An opinion and a guess are not really the same thing. If you flip that coin, i can guess it will come up heads, my opinion is that the odds are roughly 50/50 and I have no other data to form an opinion on what side will come up. ok? The reason I even bring this up is your statement minimizes any well thought out opinion, and values it no more than an off the cuff guess. You seem to do that a lot. Zeke's opinion was based on more than

2. As Zeke 5123 (rightly) stated, opinions most certainly can be right or wrong, (sorry LTW). Without getting into a philosophical debate about what "right or wrong, true or false" really means, I can say with conviction that the opinion, commonly held prior to 1492, that the earth was flat... was wrong. Conversely, the opinion the earth was a, (more or less) round sphere is true. All opinions can be found to be right or wrong if enough evidence is available, (at the time or later, doesn't matter). Now, some opinions, especially the ones being debated here, most likely cannot ever be proven true or false. Note however I did not say they were or were not, true or false. It's just that they are so subjective. (example: what does "better" mean?). However, this doesn't mean they're all equal, and that difference is HUGE, as we'll see. I really hope this puts the "opinions can't be right or wrong meme to rest.

3. Now, regarding the relative value of one opinion over another, all I have t say is this: you seem to value this top 100 list because "the players" created it. This is your opinion and at face value, would seem to be somewhat reasonable. At least it's not a guess

you even said to Stosh, "How would you suggest to make that list better than the opinions of the guys who face them week in and week out?" Given the absolute absurdity of the list I don't know how you can ask that question, or do you truly agree with this list,

However, the basis of your opinion is severely compromised by such things as Woodley's statement that he didn't vote and didn't know any players who had participated in the voting, (yeah, supposedly that was last years poll. but do you have any evidence they changed their evidence?).

In the end, it is all just opinions. But you make the mistake of valuing opinions for some pretty odd reasons. You may say that's my opinion, and you're right, BUT... it's an opinion supported by the evidence. THAT LIST SUCKS BY ANY SANE PERSON'S MEASURE. You've GOT to see that, dont you? Don't you???

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"Football is a physical game..... well, it used to be anyway..."
Mel Blount, commenting on the rule changes in the mid-70s designed to counter the domination of the Steelers

heres your million dollar question

who are you going to task to say which opinion is right, and which one is wrong?

to find the answer to that question, its probably no longer opinion, its now a fact

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Colbert on the #Steelers RB situation: "Where we were in running game last year was indicative in the talent at the position.''

Well, if we're you, we settle it with fallacious appeals to authority...

Well...unless we're talking about why Hines Ward doesn't play any longer!

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I know this, your ability to think concisely, your ability to make good judgments is much easier on Thursday night than during the heat of the game. -Bill Walsh

IC, the short answer is this:
I am going to decide whose opinion I value more. It will be "right", for me. However it will still be opinion. BUT, it will be based on something more substantial than, It's the players, who better?" I can't seriously believe you used that to rebut stosh.

The rest of the answer is this, opinions are not made in a vacuum.
Merriam Webster defines "right" as: "conforming to facts or truth : correct <the right answer>." Truth is defined as: "the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality."

So, the real question is this, is that list in any way, shape, or form, "in accord with fact or reality."

No, at least not my reality, and apparently not CalSteeler's reality, not MeanJoeGreene75's reality, not CoryR3's reality, not gemini901d's reality, not steelcity512's reality, not ReigningSteel's reality, not on ice or grass's reality, and not stosh-67's reality. That's just the posters to the middle of PAGE 2! Some of the posters listed above support their opinion with several examples. While not facts they do seem to form a consensus. In fact it's 100% until your first post on page 2 of a 5 page subject! That is the REALITY.

However, this does not make it "right" or "wrong." In that you are, at least, factually correct. Big deal. No real victory at all if you are going to continue to imply the players opinion is better than anyone else's. Won the battle, lost the war if that's the case. We agree that no one can say this list is 'right" or "wrong". Too subjective to say the least. The next best thing, and the ONLY VIABLE ALTERNATIVE is to make the case for which argument best fits the available evidence. On that we have on one side all the names I have listed above, (and more, remember, I only listed to page 2!), who say: "the list sucks." and some added, "and here's why". And on the other side there's you, who doesn't really come out and say what his opinion on the list really is, (clever, that), but questions the opinions of all the others, (directly or otherwise).

I'll make you a deal. if you believe what you say, just tell us the list is the best it can be, because, you know, it's "the opinions of the guys who face them week in and week out."

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"Football is a physical game..... well, it used to be anyway..."
Mel Blount, commenting on the rule changes in the mid-70s designed to counter the domination of the Steelers

Lamar Woodley put Larry Foote as the 10th best linebacker in the league when he was on the show last year. I'm definitely going to go with that since he watches him in practice.

Stats give you facts.

Emotions give you opinion.


I'm more inclined to believe the players who voted on this based it off the emotional aspects of their career more than anything.