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It is currently Sat May 18, 2013 2:30 pm All times are UTC - 5 hours
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MikeyT4Prez
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:40 pm |
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Joined: Sat Sep 05, 2009 10:21 am Posts: 250
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SteelPerch wrote: I like Spence the player, I question Spence as a traditional fit in this defense. If he is just a package player, I have a hard time justifying a 3rd round pick on him. I will withhold any judgements on the matter until I see how they use him and how he plays. Hopefully it all works out. I know it is a passing league now, but you need to be able to stop the run with 7 to get to passing situations. They lost in Denver because they had to sell out to stop the run. We were also down to 3 DL by the end of the 1st quarter or so, but you're point still stands. Hopefully Ta'amu can fill in as a wave player by the start of the season to give Hamp some rest.
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Jaxboro
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 1:58 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:45 pm Posts: 12338 Location: The N.I.
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The Riddle of Steel wrote: I agree we need a LB who can cover the big, strong, fast TEs but I don't see how Spence is big enough (5'11, 230 probably closer to 5'10 210) or strong enough (12 reps, supposed shoulder injury) or fast enough (4.71 40, supposed 'bad coaching')
I also don't buy his combine results are because he had a injured shoulder and injured hammy or whatever. If he was truly in such bad shape he would have been advised not to take part in the combine and sink his stock. It would have been smarter to let his gametape tell his story.
I will give him this - he looked real good in the 2 minute highlight clip of him but that was ENTIRELY him playing the run. I didn't see a single play of him dropping into coverage and certainly not against a big TE.
To me he looked like a poor man's Bob Sanders. Good in run support but I saw zero evidence he would be good in coverage against any receiver, elite TE or otherwise.
I challenge someone to show me a single clip of Spence in coverage - I haven't seen one. Can I ask how a guy whose skills you question in coverage can compare to a guy who played safety? Bob Sanders is 5'8" 206 by the way. Oh, and he was a second round pick. Taking a poor man's version of him in the third is fine.
_________________ The only things that matter to me are: Wins, Losses, Rings - FC
Since the start of the 2008 season, the Steelers percentage of designed rush plays has declined from a high of 46.4 percent of their plays in 2010 to 39.6 last season. - Chris Mortensen
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Jaxboro
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:04 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:45 pm Posts: 12338 Location: The N.I.
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SteelPerch wrote: I like Spence the player, I question Spence as a traditional fit in this defense. If he is just a package player, I have a hard time justifying a 3rd round pick on him. I will withhold any judgements on the matter until I see how they use him and how he plays. Hopefully it all works out. I know it is a passing league now, but you need to be able to stop the run with 7 to get to passing situations. They lost in Denver because they had to sell out to stop the run. They must feel his ability to make an impact warranted a 3rd round grade. They liked enough to pass on Ta'amu and take the chance that the big NT wouldn't be there later. We did end up getting the big guy in the middle, which mitigates the concern about stopping the run with the front 7. Besides, if he grades out at a 4th round pick and we take him at the tail end of the 3rd, is it really that big of a deal? It seems like this this guy is the only one of our first 5 picks that anyone can reasonably take issue with, so he's the poster boy for the draft criticism. I think Spence is being questioned more because who else did we draft that you can really question?
_________________ The only things that matter to me are: Wins, Losses, Rings - FC
Since the start of the 2008 season, the Steelers percentage of designed rush plays has declined from a high of 46.4 percent of their plays in 2010 to 39.6 last season. - Chris Mortensen
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The Riddle of Steel
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:13 pm |
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Joined: Sun Sep 06, 2009 9:53 pm Posts: 1919
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Jaxboro wrote: The Riddle of Steel wrote: I agree we need a LB who can cover the big, strong, fast TEs but I don't see how Spence is big enough (5'11, 230 probably closer to 5'10 210) or strong enough (12 reps, supposed shoulder injury) or fast enough (4.71 40, supposed 'bad coaching')
I also don't buy his combine results are because he had a injured shoulder and injured hammy or whatever. If he was truly in such bad shape he would have been advised not to take part in the combine and sink his stock. It would have been smarter to let his gametape tell his story.
I will give him this - he looked real good in the 2 minute highlight clip of him but that was ENTIRELY him playing the run. I didn't see a single play of him dropping into coverage and certainly not against a big TE.
To me he looked like a poor man's Bob Sanders. Good in run support but I saw zero evidence he would be good in coverage against any receiver, elite TE or otherwise.
I challenge someone to show me a single clip of Spence in coverage - I haven't seen one. Can I ask how a guy whose skills you question in coverage can compare to a guy who played safety? Bob Sanders is 5'8" 206 by the way. Oh, and he was a second round pick. Taking a poor man's version of him in the third is fine. Easy, Sanders sucked in coverage. He was only known as being a awesome run stopper. Unfortunately when you're 5'8 and 200 poudns soaking wet, being a human missile means your career doesn't last very long.
_________________ "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
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Jaxboro
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:22 pm |
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Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:45 pm Posts: 12338 Location: The N.I.
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Except that Sanders played in coverage all the time and made one of the key plays doing so that sent the Colts to the Super Bowl.
He was known mostly for being a run stopper, sorta like how our LBs are known nationally for being pass rushers despite them playing pass coverage regularly. It's like the Steelers being known for smashmouth football when we haven't played that way for eight seasons.
I dunno much about Spence, I'm going to go with the opinion of someone who has seen him play a lot and whose opinion I respect. Hardnosed said he's great at coverage in college, I'm going with that for now. I see where Perch is coming from, and I respect his opinion as well, but his biggest argument was where he was picked. Since we got Ta'amu anyway, I'm cool with the placement.
_________________ The only things that matter to me are: Wins, Losses, Rings - FC
Since the start of the 2008 season, the Steelers percentage of designed rush plays has declined from a high of 46.4 percent of their plays in 2010 to 39.6 last season. - Chris Mortensen
Last edited by Jaxboro on Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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86n96
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:32 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 7:05 pm Posts: 1307
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SteelPerch wrote: I like Spence the player, I question Spence as a traditional fit in this defense. If he is just a package player, I have a hard time justifying a 3rd round pick on him. I will withhold any judgements on the matter until I see how they use him and how he plays. Hopefully it all works out. I know it is a passing league now, but you need to be able to stop the run with 7 to get to passing situations. They lost in Denver because they had to sell out to stop the run. I think he probably is a package player, but we'll see a lot of the package. This wave of mismatched athletic TE's beg for big nickel packages...especially coming out of 12 personnel sets.
_________________ “If we don’t change 8-8, if we don’t change the roster that produced 8-8, we’d be silly to expect a better result if we have the same group of guys … We’re not married to any of these guys.” - Kevin Colbert
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Laying The Wood
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 2:58 pm |
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Joined: Sat Aug 08, 2009 5:54 pm Posts: 3295
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Unless you have the luxury of a player like Patrick Willis, I think you need a package player like Spence. There aren't many 6'4" 250lb backers who can run with today's tight ends and running backs.
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stosh-67
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:12 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:05 pm Posts: 5871
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Spence certainly plays faster on tape than his 40 times. Great instincts. He started as a FRESHMAN at a big time school....which says alot about him as a football player. Team leader. Signal caller I believe.
His instincts in reading plays gets him thru the line, past the lead block or around, under or in front of pulling lineman with nice speed. Like someone said.....his 4.71 speed turns into 4.5 with his instincts. Re-watch some of Hightowers tapes.........he often drifts along behind his linemen and makes his tackles at the LOS.........plugging holes so to say. Looks like Spence reads a lot faster than DH............anyway, its wait and see......as those lead blocks and pulling linemen are that much bigger and faster in the NFL.......as a few big blows may take a little pepper out of his sting.
But....the article and posts talk about above.................certainly make sense to me. The NFL is changing. I have certainly had my reservations about picking a NT in the first round anymore....let alone the 2nd round....as these guys are taken out of the game more and more with the new passing offenses. Still remember Casey watching from the sidelines as the Pats threw one pass after another several years ago. The NT has become a 20-25 snap guy.....as even a base set with two TE's has become a passing set for many of our foes. If we place such an importance on a 20-25 snap NT....well than that 20-25 snap big nickle / LB will be just a simportant down the road.
If thats the case..............maybe Ta'Amu and Spence are sharing 40-50 of 65 defensive snaps in a year or two.....as the big nickle may include Spence taking on those TE's.
I can certainly see a defensive alignment of Ziggy and Cam as the two DL....with Harrison and Woodley rushing the passer.............Timmons in the middle with Spence matched up on a TE, Brown on the slot guy with Ike and Cortez on the corners................with Clark and Troy at safety...........damn, sounds like I have more than 11 defensive players.....but it also sound like a pretty flexible defense with different options for Timmons and Troy...........
Can certainly see this on 3rd and 6+ yards..........and with the experience that Harrison and Woodley have with dropping into coverage (they do so more than most think)..............the zone blitz cna come from many different players, angles, etc...........
Anyway............I look forward to seeing what this kid can do. Who knows..............maybe this little football player with the great instincts will look good in dots one day........as in green dot.
Question? Wasn't there a 5'9" 230lb LB a few years back who played 12 seasons in the NFL, was a 3 time All-Pro and was also inducted into the College football hall of fame. Played at a small college about 15 minutes from my home.....Montclair State Colleg in NJ. The guy was a team leader and quite an inspirational player. The late Sam Mills #51.
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Iron_City
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:53 pm |
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| SteelerFury Writer |
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Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 10:41 am Posts: 17015
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The trib or PG didn't write about him pre-draft, so we should just probably cut him now
Ta'amu is too fat, cut him
Adams too tall, cut him
_________________ Colbert on the #Steelers RB situation: "Where we were in running game last year was indicative in the talent at the position.''
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steel
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Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:26 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 12, 2009 11:30 am Posts: 6750
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Iron_City wrote: The trib or PG didn't write about him pre-draft, so we should just probably cut him now
Ta'amu is too fat, cut him
Adams too tall, cut him IC in his typical "cheery" mood -- Did you beat the wife and kids yet today?
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